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Any of you use the mnemonica stack?
I know there have been a few threads on this, but I can't find them now. I'm not really a card guy - but I'm working on an effect that requires a memorized deck, not a stack like BCS (which i use a lot). If I'm going to put the effort into memorizing deck I thought it might as well be the best one possible - which is what I've heard about mnemonica. But the book is quite pricy. Any suggestions..
(I was going to learn the Nicola system, but a friend recommened mnemonica)

It's definitely the best stack and the book is well worth it. If your going to do stack work I say spend the money, you won't regret it as long as your prepared to put the memory work in.

I wouldn’t go to the point saying it is the best stack, I would say its one of the best stacks around. their are others such as the Aronson Stack, the Stebbins order and the Nikola Card System. The good thing about Juan Tamariz stack is that it is thurely explained in his Mnemonica Book. The reason allot of people say it is the best stack around, is due to the launch of Mnemonica, people have found out that a stack deck is actually worth working with, and have only dealt with Juan Tamariz Stack deck and not familiar with or worked with any others.

As everyone comprehends different things in different ways, each individual will find a particular stack easier to remember and comprehend. However saying that, I do recommend mnemonica to someone new to a stacked deck, as the book has in-depth material on Juan Tamariz stack with tricks to do ETC.

I've learned Mnemonica but I can't say I've been all that impressed with the effects particular to that stack.
Aronson's stack looks more useful to me, if you look at some of his books.

The only real advantage with Mnemonica is that you can stack it from a new deck - but it's not particularly easy or quick to do so.

I'd recommend Aronson.

I decided to memorize the Nicola system - because I alreay have it in Encyclopedia of card tricks. It's a lot easier to memorize a deck than I thought. The encyclopedia teaches you the mnemonic system required to memorize it and it took me around 3 hours. I'm still really slow - like it'll take about 3 or 4 seconds to remember the card - but that'll improve.

I think I'm still going to get hold of mnemonica, but it's not as high a priority right now. Just a quick question - in order to make full use of the advantages of mnemonica, do you need to be quite good with sleight of hand with cards? I'm not, and not being much of a fan of card magic, I don't see that happening in the future. If that is the case then I think I might as well stick with Nicola for the time being.

Thanks for all the advice

There are plenty of non sleight of hand card tricks in the book. In fact it is a massive resourse.
Not sure how you will get on with trying to remember 2 different stacks though.

The reason allot of people say it is the best stack around, is due to the launch of Mnemonica, people have found out that a stack deck is actually worth working with, and have only dealt with Juan Tamariz Stack deck and not familiar with or worked with any others.

So you have learnt Mnemonica and a few others have you?

Saxmad answered the question.

And for your information Toad, i know allot about Juan Tamariz's stack as i have been using it on and off for the pst 4 years, and new about it many years before his book Mnemonica was published, and very familiar with the Aronson and Nicola Stack. So please dont try and be clever Toad. And becouse i havent shown you a trick using the stack. Dosnt mena i have no knowledge of it. Dont forget that some of us have been into magic for more than a few days.

Ok thats the second time you have stepped over the line, I'm looking forward to just how bold your going to be shortly when I see you.

And for your information Toad, i know allot about Juan Tamariz's stack as i have been using it on and off for the pst 4 years, and new about it many years before his book Mnemonica was published, and very familiar with the Aronson and Nicola Stack. So please dont try and be clever Toad. And becouse i havent shown you a trick using the stack. Dosnt mena i have no knowledge of it. Dont forget that some of us have been into magic for more than a few days.

First off. you know as well as me I have been "into" magic for over fifteen years and performed professionally in public more times than you could dream of so please don't try to be as cheeky with me as you have been with Toad.

I have used in the past the BCS, Mnemonca, Stebbins, Eight Kings, Nicola and the Arrinson Stack. I own every Arrinson book written as well as all the work put in print by Mike Close and Tamariz. Although Arrinson's stack is very good it does not compare to Mnemonica in terms of versitility. Also in order to get the full effect of Simon's stack you have to buy 2 or 3 books on the subject, while with Mnemonica all the information you need is under one heading.

Mnemonica stack has several features Aronson's stack doesn't.
a) You can go to a mirror deck from the stack.
b) You can go to "new order" from the stack.
c) You can go to "four by four" from the "new order" by means of two simple faro.

And, there are other parts of the stacked deck possibilities that only Tamariz explores, like the "half mnemonica".

And the above named is only the tip of the iceberg.

The book covers every eventuality in great detail. Just the other night I was at my residency and I was using Mnumonica at every single table and pretty much nothing else. At the end of every set I was performing effects that destroyed the stack so that I could have a killer finish. So at the next table I would perform effects that would set the stack up in front of the audience. For example, trick one would be with a shuffled pack, trick 2 would then set up half the stack into order, then a couple of routines with half a stack and then set up the rest of the stack. And the book inludes dozens of routines to do this so you are changing it up on every table (if you want to). The shuffling thing is not an issue either. First of all if you have a good enough false shuffle (which I do) nobody will want to shuffle anyway and even if they do there are loads of ways to get back to the stack during the course of an effect.

I have performed with this deck in a paid performance situation and I am not talking about this from a theoretical point of view - The stack works and is VERY commercial.

I wouldn’t go to the point saying it is the best stack, I would say its one of the best stacks around. their are others such as the Aronson Stack, the Stebbins order and the Nikola Card System.

The person in question asked about Memorised stacks (he already knows BCS). Why did you talk about Stebbins - which is not a memorised stack? Surely someone of your obvious card knowledge would know that it is not a memorised deck!!!

By the way I take offense at you talking to Toad as if he has just got into magic. You know as well as me that is not the case. He performs professionally both on a corporate and restaurant basis more than you could ever know. And as I am in the position of having seen both you and HT perform I can say he is a lot more entertaining and actually has a personality - which helps although I guess knowing about memorised decks is way more important from your point of view than actually knowing how to present magic. What does it matter how long someone has been "into" magic for? Are you saying that HT's advise is not valid because he has not been in the magic world as long as you? Well, I would personally rather ask him for advice than someone who is (and lets be blunt here) a bit c*** (not the best).

HT does not need me to fight his battles but please be aware when you disparage him it affects me and I will not stand by and allow that to happen.

In the future try to mind your own business and fix your own performance issues before attacking someone else

Craig

Ok children... this stops now!

if you wish to continue tossing insults at each other then do it by pm or email...but not on the forums thank you.


Any more posts of this nature will see this thread locked, this is the first and last warning

I agrre Mog, this is verry childish, as i thought forums like this was all about opinions. But it seems poeple get the wrong end of the stick very eassily, when their opinions are challenged.

Hmmm, yes i agree. I dont think it was right to attack Gochos in that way - after all it's just about giving opinions and not insulting each other.

Does the Mnemonica book explain an interesting way to memorise the stack? I remember talk of it being easy!

Once again - thanks for all the advice. I think if I learn mnemonica I'll then ignore Nicola. In fact the mnemonic system that I learnt with Nicola is slightly different from the one I'm familiar with ( from Lorayne's book) - but it took all of 10 mins to learn the new system. I assume by the title, mnemonica uses a similar system and so will be as easy to learn.

I also see that Richard Osterland has a memory system for BCS - I'm tempted to learn that - but as much as I love BCS I can't see that it would gve me too much more advantage memorising the stack - other thanknowing which number the card is (which is all I really need for the effect I'm working on).

As for the 'argument' - A group of magicians and myself spent some time with another magician who had studied under Dai Vernon. He encouraged us to all show him something. One of the things that really stood out for me was that on a few occasions he said "Wow - I've never seen that before". That was refreshing - He's been into magic for longer than I've been alive - yet he didn't have the attitude that he knew everything. I suspect he was just trying to encourage us - but the point was he acknowleged that even someone who hasn't been into magic very long has something to offer. I think that's something we need to bear in mind. It's very easy to try and prove how much you know or how long you've been into the art. It's a pointless excercise - all that matters is how your audience percieve you. So - leave the 'proving yourself' for the audience - here is where we learn from each other..

First of all if you have a good enough false shuffle (which I do) nobody will want to shuffle anyway and even if they do there are loads of ways to get back to the stack during the course of an effect.

You can restack a deck during a performance???

Apart from deck switches or if the spectator just does a brief overhand shuffle (which only mildly disturb the order), how can you possibly recover from a proper riffle shuffle during the presentation?

That sounds like magic!

Quote:
First of all if you have a good enough false shuffle (which I do) nobody will want to shuffle anyway and even if they do there are loads of ways to get back to the stack during the course of an effect.


You can restack a deck during a performance???

Apart from deck switches or if the spectator just does a brief overhand shuffle (which only mildly disturb the order), how can you possibly recover from a proper riffle shuffle during the presentation?

That sounds like magic!

You can shuffle with all your heart, make spectators shuffle, and still regain the order, WHILE PERFORMING great magic.
So, mnemonica is like another tool you have. If you want to, you go to order, use it, then loose it. Or not.

I.E.: if you end up with blocks. With a Hofszinser under the spread control and a few cuts, you are done.
Or even better, Dough Edwards has a nice effect TAKING ADVANTAGE of this situation. You see, if you still have blocks, and a spectator cuts, takes a card, and hide it inside her pocket....you still will have your at least your key card in place. Or you have a good shot at it.

If a spectator ask to shuffle the card YOU CAN let them. 2 ways: let them actually shuffle at pleasure, and take a good look.
If they shuffle in their hands once, or riffle shuffle once in their hands, YOU CAN STILL REGAIN THE ORDER. And easily. Tamariz explains how.
If they riffle shuffle twice, still you can take advantage of your knoledge of the order.
The second way is let them totally and utterly destroy the stack...and simply forgetting about it. Wow, big deal.
Or better, regain it while performing.

And we are not talking about half mnemonica, wich you can control EVEN MORE than full mnemonica, and still you have like 20 effects to perform.

About performing tricks that don't disrupt the stack, well, it deppends on what you want to do.
The above explained I think covers this matter. You can do what you want.

Craig