talkmagic.co.uk

Guys,

I know we are all trying to help each other here so can I ask a favour please in regard to reviews?

Please don't just cut and paste the descriptions from the various vendor's sites, I've probably already read then whilst dribbling into my keyboard in my magical quest!

I don't want disclosure but would like to know whether you rate the trick, where and how (in the act, not the secret moves or give-aways) you use the trick and whether you wish you'd never bought the trick or not.

These things help me to gauge whether or not I'm going to fork out for it myself.

I sometimes get the feeling that people are posting their pasted offereings in the mistaken belief it will lead to access (along with the myth that size i.e. number of postings matters) to other places.

Talk from experience and tell me your story with the trick please.

Sorry for this, hope it doesn't offend anyone, but felt it needed to be said and so have!! I know we're amateurs at this reviewing business, after all take a look at mine, but we can develop our styles here (just think, there are club magazines waiting for the benefit of our skills gained here

Vic

I sort of agree with this sentiment. I quite like it when somebody includes the short description of what the effect is - quite often I've never heard it and it gives me something to drool over. However, when people just post this without any (or very little) opinion on the trick, then I get cross.

Kati

Quite right guys! Can I just mention that there is a Review template which shows a sort of standard layout which means we can easily compare one review with another? There's room for both 'What it says on the tin'/'What they say' and as much personal opinion, non-disclosing information or anything else which would help convey approval or otherwise of the item in question.

While I want to see personal comments as Vic has said, I do actually like to see the sales blurb as well, to save me searching for it. It's ok if you already know the effect but often it may be a new one to you and then it's helpful. If all you get is the sales blurb and a one liner it's pretty much a waste of space.

Happy Toad wrote:While I want to see personal comments as Vic has said, I do actually like to see the sales blurb as well, to save me searching for it. It's ok if you already know the effect but often it may be a new one to you and then it's helpful. If all you get is the sales blurb and a one liner it's pretty much a waste of space.

I agree with the sentiment HT, but what I'm trying to say is that the sales blurb is great (and sometimes invaluable) but there have been a few posting which have consisted of nothing more than the sales blurb. I am always happy to read this, but expect a review to be what it says on the tin.

Hope I didn't give the impression that I didn't want that, if so, what I meant is 'not just the sales blurb!'

Reading through some of the reviews, I find it strange when someone puts one up which gives the blurb, extolls it's virtues and then asks how it's done. Always good for a laught

Vic

there have been a few posting which have consisted of nothing more than the sales blurb

which has not gone unnoticed! . We have also had the occasional instance where someone has copied wholesale a review from one forum and posted it on another under their own name but all these things get noticed eventually.

Essentially a Review ought to be a subjective and understandably personal assessment of the item in question and if it can be compared/contrasted to the blurb, then it will be all that much more useful. It should certainly involve a bit of time and effort to give the item proper consideration. So many of the items promoted use words & phrases such as 'killer', 'will knock 'em dead', 'you'll floor them with this one' and so on and I guess we all know that these rather violently worded claims are likely to be a wee bit of an exaggeration to say the least so we need individual reviews and, if two people have the same item, perhaps two differing views and conclusions.

I wonder if the problem which is direct posting of sales blurb as a review (for which one doesn't have to look far) might not be a knee jerk attempt to 'post a gem' in the vain hope it will yield access to the higher echelons.

It's the same attitude that hopes to gain passes in examinations without the study, for writing reams that neither inform, engage or demonstrate a knowledge of the subject matter remove marks in the long run.

Hope this makes sense - and if so, how do we take those who are young/inexperienced forward in such as way as they patiently progress? There's this attitude that has always been with us that we want to be there now!

Throughout the forum there are signposts saying 'quality not quantity' and encouraging learning of a few tricks as the way forward not the disclosure of many. Back to the RRTCM quote regarding knowing how many tricks are done against being able to perform a few well,

Vic

This is an ongoing problem for the Moderators, especially in respect of discussing/voting on those offered MO access from time to time. We all have to plough through a candidate's posting history to make sure we have the right impression of that person. There are times when it's obvious that the postings are not original and someone has just banged in lots of insubstantial messages. Fortunately they are in the minority and most TM members add something of quality to our collective knowledge on a regular basis. Encouraging young newcomers is also finely balanced - it's not all that long ago since we were 'that age' and, despite some impressions, we do try and make allowances for youthful exuberance where possible. Fortunately, Magic is one of those activities which appeals to all ages, and is equally valid/possible for all ages so, as long as it doesn't frighten the horses, most things are OK!

Mandrake wrote:Encouraging young newcomers is also finely balanced - it's not all that long ago since we were 'that age' and, despite some impressions, we do try and make allowances for youthful exuberance where possible. Fortunately, Magic is one of those activities which appeals to all ages, and is equally valid/possible for all ages so, as long as it doesn't frighten the horses, most things are OK!

I am still very much in the inexperienced category when compared to people who do magic in a secular context but have served a basic apprenticeship with RRTCM and other books. My problem came in the form that doing Gospel magic, I found it hard to meet with like minded people and it was Pete McCahon (President of FCM, Monkey Magic member and great guy - now sadly gone) who got me to join clubs, meet with others and do magic in non church settings that made me really take off isnofar as presentation and patter is concerned.

Can't say I'll emulate Mark Shortland (winner in Blackpool last year) but I'm going to give ity a good try soon!. Problem is, it seems many confuse learning a trick with knowing how it's done (for many, disclosure is power).

Don't mind the horses being frightened (remind me to tell you the stallion joke when we meet!) but would love to find a way of developing excellence in a few tricks and understanding of the principles (I know it's old, but Tabell really made me think about angles, speed and methods) in those who are new and come here.

I reckon the site does an excellent job all in all, the management of it is exceptional (hate the word policing, it smacks of thought control). The balance and the controls are friendly and logical.

Vic

When looking at and using the reviews template, in my opinion it's OK, in fact important to include and even copy the words of the commercial sales pitch of the effect, into the 'effect' section of the review but that's where copying should stop. I personally consider the sales pitch as the measure that's set for you, and everyone else to review against. If the commercial text says that the effect is a 'killer' or 'easy to do' then it's right to include this in contect. In your own words in the remaining sections, you then have the right to knock 7 bells out of the sales pitch or agree.

The remainder of the review should be your own words and thoughts, gained through having unpacked, handled and performed with the item that's being reviewed. The copying of tect from another web site is just not on, unless you are the original person making the post on that site as well.