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here is a topic i would like to put up because I want to get a powerfull trick and I'm strugulling over what a should get. I would like to know what is your favorite buyable mony or card trick that you have seen or own this will help me some and help others looking for a good trick.

Thanx

Self-working, with no sleights required? ID is a killer, and you can really make it a mental trick as well.

ID is a great effect - though I never get much use out of it.

This is just a personal preference, but if I'm in the market for one-shot tricks - I stay away from trick decks. I'm a packet trick junkie - and I find a solid packet effect is just as strong (if not stronger) than an ID effect.

For your situation, Andy - I'd take the advice Gary3911 gave in another thread. He mentioned buying a packet effect that teaches a specific sleight(s) and using that as a practical practice tool. This way, you're not only building your chops, you're also preparing yourself with an effect you can take out into the world with you.

So, if you're looking for a specific kind of sleight or move - just say it, and I'll see if I can come up with a few packet effects that will meet your needs.

The ID is also useful for other tricks, though.

For example, with a one-way force deck you can have the spectator reverse one card in their deck behind their back then you reverse one card behind yours and they're found to be matching.

It's also useful as an out: if you mess up a card trick, ask what their card was, then act surprised and say, "Oh, the Three of Clubs? Here, look at this deck, because face-down in the centre of this deck...".

So definitely, I'd go with the ID.

If you want some very cool packet tricks, I would also recommend:

Twisted Sisters (self-working but is helped by an Elmsley count)

Queens out of Control (don't own it but read great reviews - needs a perfect Elmsley)

NFW (needs a Hamman count and an Elmsley - with Mark Farrar's handling)

Color Monte (almost selfworking, needs a DL and a move called the Annemann Alignment move)

Mental Photography deck (not a packet trick but very cool)

The only problem is - now you're carrying 3 decks, Katriel. A normal deck, the ID, and a one-way (spell that USELESS) deck.

As an out, eh - I can't say that's useful. Pull out a deck for ONE thing to cover up a mistake? An smart spectator would catch on pretty quickly.

Regardless of how many different KIND of effects you use, it's still just a one-trick pony.

Packets are the same way - but there are plenty of packet effects that can be concealed in a deck and used at any time during a routine. At the very least, you're not carting around extra decks in your pocket. And they come in such nice little plastic cases!!!

Demitri wrote:The only problem is - now you're carrying 3 decks, Katriel. A normal deck, the ID, and a one-way (spell that USELESS) deck.

As an out, eh - I can't say that's useful. Pull out a deck for ONE thing to cover up a mistake? An smart spectator would catch on pretty quickly.

Regardless of how many different KIND of effects you use, it's still just a one-trick pony.

Oh my goodness. I think you need do a bit more prep work with thought to your ID, Demitri. I for one have seen a seasoned (30 years) pro use the ID as an 'out,' on stage, in front of a 400-strong audience, to thunderous applause. He had to use it as an out for his finale , so the pressure was on, and it was brilliant.

I'm sure Paul Zenon used an ID at a pool table - the spectator hit the white ball at random to select a card or something similar. Can't quite remember the details, but I'm sure others do.

The power of using the ID as a mentalist tool is also huge - but again, I'm sure others will tell you about that too. I simply use the given routine and get great reactions.

Oh and the plastic cases - tacky. But I suppose some people like tack.

Zack wrote:I'm sure Paul Zenon used an ID at a pool table - the spectator hit the white ball at random to select a card or something similar. Can't quite remember the details, but I'm sure others do.

I think that was a 1 way forcer, with clean handing, Paul got the ( this is from memory btw) speccy to select a card, and replace it in the deck. Paul then spread the cards on the table and the speccy hit the cue ball randomly until he was happy, and the card he stopped on was the selected card.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, might try that today if i find a pool table on tour, lol.

Cyas

mark

Demitri wrote:The only problem is - now you're carrying 3 decks, Katriel. A normal deck, the ID, and a one-way (spell that USELESS) deck.

I can't see the problem?

It's not uncommon to be carrying a few decks of cards. It's easy to switch, if you are using non-card routines inbetween.

The ID is a hugely successful tool, as it is simply unfathomable to a layperson. Used as a grand finale, it is practically undoubtedly one of the strongest finishes you can use, as it proves undisputedly that you have just performed real magic.

And the one-way deck—another HUGE tool in the creative magicians' arsenal. MANY effects possible, if you've got the courage to try them.

The key is creativity.

If you can obtain all decks in a similar brand (All of the above mentioned are available in Bicycle) then you can simply switch innocently from REGULAR cards to the other decks at will. Use the regular decks to lull the spectators into a sense of familiarity. Let them handle it, perform a few effects with it. Then, when they are happy that the deck is kosher, simply switch with a forcing deck or ID and you will fry them.

THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX

It's disappointing when I hear people slating utility decks (such as invisible, svengali etc.) as 'one trick ponies'. It's a very blinkered opinion.

The ID routine can be SO strong, if you apply a little creativity.

And using a one, two or even three way forcing deck can prove to be hugely entertaining if you have a good routine.

The only way magic evolves is through experiment. After all, most inventions (not just magic) are the product of experiment or accident.

Also, your suggestion Demitri, about using packet tricks as learning tools, brings me to my next point. Which is, get some knowledge/foundation work in. Almost all magicians will have read the Royal Road to Card Magic at some point. This book will teach a myriad of sleights, moves and card handlings, but more importantly it also teaches you effects which you can learn to utilise these moves.

Far more valuable than packet effects, I would recommend you study the Royal Road T.C.M. with a deck of cards nearby. It will blow the TRUE 'one trick pony' packet effects you could waste your money on out of the water.

And what's more, the R.R.T.C.M. will also be a good foundation for you to further your studies and understanding of the art.

Imagine—being at a party and someone gets out a deck of cards—and you can reel off trick after trick with that one BORROWED deck. That, to me, is far more impressive than carrying a plastic wallet with 8 custom printed cards in it and doing 'a party-piece packet trick'.

And as for money effects, Bobo's Modern Coin Magic is the 'coin' equivalent to the R.R.T.C.M.

They are not 'single' effects, but they are the building blocks on which practically all modern magicians will start their career.

You are not merely investing in the books—you are embracing knowledge which has been harvested and passed on from generation to generation.

Now THAT'S magic.

Demitri wrote:The only problem is - now you're carrying 3 decks, Katriel. A normal deck, the ID, and a one-way (spell that USELESS) deck.

As an out, eh - I can't say that's useful. Pull out a deck for ONE thing to cover up a mistake? An smart spectator would catch on pretty quickly.

Regardless of how many different KIND of effects you use, it's still just a one-trick pony.

Packets are the same way - but there are plenty of packet effects that can be concealed in a deck and used at any time during a routine. At the very least, you're not carting around extra decks in your pocket. And they come in such nice little plastic cases!!!

The one-way deck was just an idea. It could be done the same with a normal deck and a Classic force.

Kati

Magic Mark wrote:I think that was a 1 way forcer

Me too.

When I go out loaded and ready to perform it is not unusual for me to have four decks spread around my body, a packet trick in my shirt pocket and other pockets filled with a variety of other stuff. As long as you know where it all is that's no problem at all as long as you aren't obviously switcing between decks (or plastic wallets!) between each trick.

I figure it was a one-way forcer then?

But, thinking about it, scattering a standard deck over a pool table, asking the punter to hit the white ball and whichever card it stops closest to - et voila, out comes your ID.

Oh and thanks for agreeing with me guys. I felt a bit silly posting that this morning and have been wondering whether I should have done or not!

First off - I suppose I should point out I never said you SHOULDN'T use an ID. In fact, I said-

ID is a great effect - though I never get much use out of it.
Not ONCE did I say it wasn't a good effect. I just said I didn't use it all that often. As for prep work - why didn't some of you ASK me what I've done with an ID, BEFORE chastising me for my opinion? Too hard?

I have used the ID as a companion to many effects - using either marked decks or other mentalism concepts. I have used it right alongside Jim Steinmeyer's World's Thinnest Deck effect as a kicker ending.

I don't like using ID as an out....and I'm sorry, my opinion on that still remains. I still think a smart spectator would question why I needed a second deck to make the trick work properly. As for the magician you saw - don't you think it's possible he wasn't actually using it as an out? I've seen plenty of people "mess up" a trick, only to succeed at the end. Sounds more like that, than cover for a mistake.

Yes, the ID can be used for different kinds of effects - I was referring to the fact that it can ONLY be used for one specific purpose. That's why I called it a one-trick pony. For instance - take a Stripper deck. This is a utility deck that can be used ALL THE TIME. Like the Invisible, it has a special purpose and construction - unlike Invisible, it can be used as a working deck. Hence - one-trick pony.

As for the "Think outside the box" comment - I think that's quite uncalled for. Especially considering you have no idea what kind of performing I do. Yes, I will sometimes use more than one deck - but in certain situations, it's just not practical for me to carry them around.

I find one-way forcing decks useless (to me) because I can just force a specific card, if needed. Perhaps calling it useless was going overboard, so for that I apologize. That's not to say there are NO strong forced effects...there are. I just don't find them practical for my work.

So Siege - before you criticise me, please pay attention to what I've actually said. I didn't say trick decks were useless, nor did I say he shouldn't use them.

As for RRTCM - sure, that's a great idea. However, he wasn't asking about books or DVD's he was asking for suggestions for tricks to buy. I agree 1000% that books are the better tools for learning, but I'm simply confining my answer to his original question. Too many times, I've seen someone ask for a trick or effect suggestion, only to get railed by others for not wanting to get a book instead. He wanted an effect, so I was offering advice on effects.

I don't want to start a huge argument over this, but I find it unneccesary that people make remarks about my creativity because I hold a different opinion. I find it even more unusual, since I said ID was a GOOD EFFECT

Anyway - on that note - plastic cases are NOT tacky! They're......well alright, they're a bit tacky. Yeah, nothing screams TRICK CARDS more than plastic cases with a few cards in them, but I like them for walkaround work.

Demitri wrote:As for the magician you saw - don't you think it's possible he wasn't actually using it as an out? I've seen plenty of people "mess up" a trick, only to succeed at the end. Sounds more like that, than cover for a mistake.

The actual out was a snake that found the card in the pack and spit the rest of the cards out of the basket in which he lived (don't ask - it was hilarious). One time, and only once, the snake got it wrong! I think the magician messed up either the force or the shuffle - the snake rose out of the basket with a card in it's mouth, he took it out and it should have been the spec's card but it wasn't! He had an ID sealed in an envelope in his case and revealed the card that way instead.

It's not possible he wasn't actually using it as an 'out' because I used to welcome him to my stage every two weeks on a Monday! I knew his act inside-out.

Please accept my apologies for the misunderstanding of your original post - it looked like you were having a bash at everything that had been said before and 'one-trick pony' lead me to believe that you only ever did one routine with the deck and it didn't work for you.

There. I apologised. My Mum will be so proud.

Ahh, gotcha. My apologies for speaking too soon. In that case, that's a pretty cool cover for it. It reminds me of a mistake I saw.

In a local shop, the guy was REALLY trying to sell me on a few effects, one of them an effect that uses a little plastic snake to bite the card. In the process, he not only flubbed the selection (flashing FOUR extra cards in the process of showing me my completely FREE choice) - but when the snake "bit" the card - it managed to drop the other two beneath it.

He finally gave up and just told me it WAS a good effect.

Anyway, not a problem. Having gone back and read my own post, I can see why some of you might have seen it as bashing. It was not my intention at all.

About the snake - it was amazing, not a tacky gimmicky little thing.

It was a complete set up with a basket and a mechanical snake and everything. He had a duplicate snake that he'd have some by-play/adult humour with for a good ten minutes before, then he'd put the snake and the cards in this huge basket, and cards would start flying out of the basket by the dozen, as though the snake was actually sorting through them and throwing out hte wrong ones! It was so funny. Then, the mechanical bit would kick in, and the snake would rise, his head moving from side to side, with the spec's card in his mouth! It was brilliant, and knowing what I know now, it must have been very, very expensive.

The guy is a legend.