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I use often classic force in order to make the selection of the card and it works very well in 90% of cases whith people that i dont know. When i do some trick to my friends the percentage of success is less of 50% and i have to change trick or , if i need absolutely to force a card, i use riffle force.

Somebody encounters the same problems?

There is no solution or other ideas for for this ?

I have encountered this problem with my friends too. When I'm trying to force a card, they know that I perform tricks, and so try to trip me up right at the start. They either take the very bottom card of the deck, or the top one... anything to be awkward.

I find the Hindu Force works better with friends. You get to control the cards, and no matter when they say 'Stop', you can force the card you want on them.

Hope this helps.

Anybody in my school, even the teachers always either pick the bottom card, the top card or the second/third from bottom when i try tohe classic force. I came to a simple solution to fix the problem, I just don't use it.

jokerdan wrote:I came to a simple solution to fix the problem, I just don't use it.

Then you're missing out on a seriously useful tool. The beauty of the classic force is that it doesn't look like a force at all, if done properly. I know any force shouldn't look like a force, but there are certaain forces out there (e.g. Cross Cut force, cut deeper force, etc) which look decidedly fishy. The classic force and the riffle force are probably the fairest looking forces.

The key to performing the classic force sorrectly is practise. Once you understand the idea behind it you simply have to go out and try it. The problem arises when you start to rely on it to early i.e. if you get it wrong you're stuck up the muddy creek without a paddle.

Try using the classic force evertime you have a spectator pick a card regardless of whether you need to force it or not. Eventually you'll get very good at forcing the card on them.

As for using it infront of friends/family/"tough cookies", just use a bit of common sense. If you think somebody is going to mess you around, don't use the classic force. If you have to force the card in these situations I've found that the riffle force works very well.

If anybody is interested I posted An Exercise on the Classic Force in the Techniques forum of the restricted area. I suggest you look it up when you get access, or if you are really desperate PM me and I'll send you a copy.

mark_c1975 wrote:I have encountered this problem with my friends too. When I'm trying to force a card, they know that I perform tricks, and so try to trip me up right at the start. They either take the very bottom card of the deck, or the top one... anything to be awkward.

To Tackle this LITTLE PROBLEM note the top and bottom cards before offering the cards to the spectator and say something like " Now If you'd like to Take a card but don't take the top or bottom one as i alredy know what they are because i saw them when i was shuffling, just take one from the middle to make it a little more difficult" and use the force. If the stubborn bu**er takes either top or bottom card then just name it. and go straight back into the trick you are trying to do.

Classic Force is GREAT, but I must admit, I never use it, of reasons mentioned earlier in this thread. There are lots of other easier forces, that work just as well. WORK meaning, giving you what you want, it might not look that clear as the classic, but hey, most ppl won't notice that...

Paul Green's "Classic Force" video is an excellent resource. He has various "Outs" and also methods of controlling people who are gonna grab the top or bottom card.

I find it worse when I'm spreading the cards, and someone dives into the unspread cards. I mean for gods sake, do you WANT to see a "trick"... or me mess up? Really?



~Sym~

I do the Classic every time I ask someone to pick a card. If they take it, its a miracle and milk it. If they don't I have numerous ways of controlling it to the top or bottom and revealing it. It doesn't matter. Its the practice that counts.

I've had them take the Classic and say, 'How the hell did you do that' and I've said that I made them choose the card. Then I've done it again and said, 'Its OK, this time pick any one you want' and I've Classic them again.

Sym, they always go in early, rarely late. I don't ask them to pick a card until I've started spreading them, so the top and bottom cards aren't really available. When they go in early (watch their hands) I lift up the cards so they can see the faces as I'm spreading them and say, 'you can choose anyone you want' but I've stopped them from picking one. As I get closer to the Classic I bring them back down. Practice will give you a feel for it because they always take one a few cards after you bring the pack back down.

If you pass the Classic card, speed up the spread to the end and start again.

As has been mentioned, if they believe they have freely taken a card from the middle of the deck they will shout it to everyone that there was no way that you made them pick that card.

Note, I never use the word Force when I'm talking the the spectators.

Take a single card in your hand. Hand it to a spectator. There you have it - the classic force. If you can put that single card in there hand 100% of the time, then you can do the same with a full deck 100% of the time.

Your friends are different. They are trying to be funny or giving you a good natured ribbing. They aren't trying to trip you up, but they are your friends. Fact of the matter is, if you can overcome the problems that your friends may give you, then you can do it for ANYONE, easily.

All in all, the classic force is simply placing a card in someone's hand.

Mike.

Agree with what Michael Jay said - to an extent!!

Also, great ways, to practice, are routines, where you can go into something else, if they pick the wrong card.

So like, lets try something with four kings, (run thru deck) oh i can only find 3 (how surprising) - pick a card, and whatever you pick we'll use as a king (classic force)

They pick a king - (they freak out)
They pick something else - (ok, a erm...six... so these three Kings and a sic, go to burgle a house...riiight...you with me?)

I did these last week, and it worked, beautifully, it was so quick, so smoothe the queen (it wa) fell into her hand, and she just turned it over and smiled, then i smiled...

It was what i like to see in magic - it was magic!!
Ed.

Here are 2 possible solutions;

1. I have found that as you spread the cards, if you look to one side as if you are disinterested, people tend to drop their guard and simply take the force card.

2. I've seen Bill Goldman do a beautiful force which is a variation. As he spreads the cards, he says "Take any card you're comfortable with..." and then as he reaches the force card, he lifts all the cards above it with his right hand, fans them, looks to his right side and places the fan over his eyes while saying, "I won't look." This appears to be so disarming of suspicion, that spectators simply reach down and take the top card of the packet remaining in his left hand (the force card of course).

Try this. It's a bold move, but works. Good luck!

GoldFish wrote:...there are certaain forces out there (e.g. Cross Cut force, cut deeper force, etc) which look decidedly fishy. The classic force and the riffle force are probably the fairest looking forces.

Hrm...I disagree here.

IMHO the Cross Cut force is one of the fairest forces you can do. I've done it to maybe 20 or 30 people and out of that 2 people guessed it (and one of them is my brother who knows a lot about magic anyway). If they don't notice it it looks so fair!

The riffle force, on the other hand, I may be doing wrong but I get caught out on maybe 50% of the time. It just doesn't look right to me - even when someone like Sankey does it. Why? Well, for me it's because the selection is marked by such a small break - in the Cross cut force the entire deck is turned but in the riffle force it's just bending down the corner of the deck and it just looks suspicious.

The Classic force and the double cut force though, I agree with you there.

Kati

The two BEST tips I can ever recommend on the classic come from Royal Road, and from Harry Lorayne in The Magic Book. 1) It's a subtle thing but it's valid -- don't say "choose a card." Say "take a card." The word choose gives too much psychological ammo to the spectator, quietly implanting the idea that he or she can pick n' choose as opposed to "randomly" taking any card.

2) Very important: Don't care so much about executing the classic. As someone said above, it's just handing someone a card. The only way that I know of to adopt this care-free attitude is to practice controlling a card to the top in the event that the classic fails. So they take the wrong card. So what? The spectator has no clue what is supposed to come next anyway. Just go with the flow and either control it to the top (or wherever). Thus, the pressure is absolutely off you.

Above all, don't pin an entire subsequent routine on the classic succeeding (recipe for disaster). The more casual and relaxed you are, the more likely the classic will work. It's gotta be the most beautiful of all forces. Enjoy it! And as the Spanish say, practica, practica, practica!

this is a technique and another solution for the people who tend to get cute when u are forcing them a card.

I find that rather then forcing single card. I give them maybe an extra choice while fanning throught the deck. so if they pass on the first card there is always a second or maybe even a third card i can use to my lesiure, depending on how i had shuffled the deck before hand.

Well, that might work but there are a few problems with that approach.

One is that you will have to hold 2 or three breaks, and holding more than one break in a deck looks a bit fishy...

Another is that sometimes you have to force one card in particular - so it doesn't work if they miss that card. In fact, I can't think of any effects where you have a choice of 2 or even 3 cards to work with so why not just use a cleaner force.

Personally, I like the one where you have a card freely selected, place it on top, and do a DL...

Kati