talkmagic.co.uk

when someone figures out how you have done an effect what do you do. and how often does it happen?

The short answer is that they shouldn't figure it out unless you have done something wrong. However, you're not always that lucky so you should really prepare some lines for that, e.g. pretend to scold the cards for revealing the secret. After you've said something funny, do another trick "to make up for that one". Or, if you have an ID, how about, "So, if I saw your card, how could I know this then ?".

Kati

Do you practice in front of a mirror? If not then YOU SHOULD. This is a great way to learn your blind spots. i.e. If the mirror is to my right and i can see what I'm doing, then some one who stands to my right when i perform the trick will see how its done. A common mistake when your a beginner and i think everyone has made it is that you tend to think more of what your hands are doing and not thinking about body positioning.
Get the Mechanics of the trick down so that you could almost do them blind folded and then get in front fo a mirror. do the trick as if the mirror was a person and find your angles once you've found your blind spot do the trick to a real person preferably a friend who won't rib you if you get it wrong.

As has already been said, no-one should ever work out how you do what you do. You should have practiced enough, and have a routine astounding enough, that the question of how it is done doesn't come into your audiences mind until it is too late (either by virtue of the time that has passed or the false history you have provided).

Better than a mirror (if you have the technology) is a video camera which you can set to different hieghts and angles and you can watch it back as much as you want to.

You can also do the trick as if you were actually pereforming it, so you can analyse what you say, your naturalness etc.

Also, if you want to perfect a sleight (such as an overhand shuffle where you keep control of the top stock of cards) you can mix genuine shuffles with false shuffles repeatedly and when you watch it back you see if they look the same as each other. Go through this process until both the false shuffles and the genuine shuffles look natural. This is a tip from the theory section of Roberto Giobbi's Card College Volume 2, this is a great series of books, especially the theory section in Vol 2.

Actually, I tend to disagree with the comments made by others.

Far more often than they want to admit it to themselves magicians will get caught, but most spectators are polite enough to keep quiet and let the others enjoy the show. The correct way to handle it partly falls under the heading of "Audience Management". You have to set the expectations right from the very beginning.

IMHO first and foremost you are an entertainer. You have to make it clear that you are not about to show your spectators that you are smarter than they are and that you can achieve things they cannot. If you setup a challenge, you are very likely to start up a competition and infuriate every single potential heckler and put the rest of the audience on the heckler's side. (Besides, most likely at least some members of your audience ARE smarter than you are!) If, instead, you are showing up as the average Joe, who does not have supernatural skills but just improved natural abilities we all have, you are not seen as a threat to anybody's intellect. This is a lesson I have learned from Richard Osterlind and unfortunately it remains to be one of those secrets of magic that are forgotten over the latest methods and secrets whose exposure allegedly causes so much harm to the art ... but I digress.

Now let's assume you have not upset anybody and have established a positive atmosphere of cooperation. What else can you do to improve your presentation?

First, you have to know your handling. Yes, you knew that already, didn't you?

However, it is not enough to do a sleight in front of a mirror, a camera, surrounded or whatever. You have to be able to do it when you are surrounded by spectators, nervous, talking and gesturing. You do not have to "know a move", you have to "perform your presentation".

During rehearsal, you must plan and practice the gestures, the wording, and the sleights as a unit. If you can do the move only when you stop talking and look straight forward, it will be as useless as if you cannot do it at all. In most cases, it will not be a flash or a shaky handling, but your own body language, your feeling of "guilt" which will give a sleight/gimmick/whatever away. Through this behavior, the audience will know that you did "something", but not necessarily what.

It will take time to become perfect. And you will also have to fail in your performances (everybody does). Just don't give up to practice. You don't have to know many moves, sleights, tricks or routines. Many magicians became famous with just a single effect. Choose one effect, practice it daily, for several months straight. Keep performing it, figure out what works (meaning, what ENTERTAINS, NOT WHAT FOOLS!!!) for you and keep improving the weak points.

Well, you might still get caught. At least, I do (and sometimes it is because I'm breaking my own rules). For such cases, you may want to prepare and rehearse an "out". See it as a part of your presentation, an alternative path your show can take (but usually does not). I have learned while performing which things can go wrong. I now collect these problems and prepare outs for them. As time passes, it becomes better and better. But when, where and what you need will depend on your personality. A simple "Oops, sorry, I messed that one up!" may go further than the most elaborate gimmick can take you. It shows (see above) that you are as human as your spectators.

You can theorize about problems on your own, but actually what goes wrong during performance will be quite different from what you were afraid of before. There are zillions of threads on hypothetical problems of effects which just are not problematic at all in the real world and only become so because magicians are afraid of it. If you did not encounter something a colleague perceives as a "problem", then most likely it does not exist! So don't be afraid of it. If it causes your performance to be not entertaining on a regular basis, THEN it is the right time to worry!

Sorry for the rather lengthy post, but I hope it helps you a little to find what works best for you. Just don't be discouraged and don't give up. We are all having bad days and the best learning opportunity is form your mistakes.

Yeah well said Rumburak.

Actually I "got caught" recently with a TT. I vanished a £5 note and everyone was pretty amazed, but then one of them gave it away saying her dad had teh same trick. Of course I denied that that was how it was done and everybody else stared at my hands (they saw noting). TBH though the others didnt really get what she was saying and soon stopped caring.

No matter how much you practise one thing you can be certain of, if you perform enough you WILL be caught. Anyone who doesn't agree simply doesn't perform enough. Rumburak's post has the best advice on the thread so far.

Thanks Rumburak. That is a very comforting post.. I don't pretend to "perform" yet (except the odd childrens party) but I do try my stuff out on my family to see how far practice has got me. I am generally not rumbled but it does happen. I have been carless with my handling of cards, I have dropped cards while shuffling.

This weekend my mother became my top criic. She is not a fan of magic but my dad is. So I tried out a couple of tricks. I did my pound and penny on my mother and her only response was "hmm, its a trick coin" (it did bear examination) and I did my ID on my father and my mother spotted the gimmick (I guess I was holding the pack too level).

As far as I am concerned this was an invaluable lesson. I work in practice with a mirror but then I know what I am looking for. My conclusion from this little try out was needs more practice! Thanks again for a realistic appraisal.

Being caught out by someone who knows how an effect os done is different to your handling being seen though, surely?

I feel that if I had an effect that I was so worried about that I actually prepared an out for it then I don't think I should be performing it in the first place.

Having said that, I realise that everyone has off days and that on the odd occasion your mind will wonder and something will go wrong, though I find that as long as I am well practiced this almost never happens (thank goodness I don't perform enough). My first reply, as I am sure most people realised, was addressed predominantly at beginners who might begin to accept a certain number of catch outs as 'just the way it is' when in reality it is probably more avoidable than they think.

I would also agree that this discussion (ie implying that there is a possibility of ever being caught out) is more dangerous exposure than revealing the workings of a trick, and I am sorely tempted to move it to MO except that there are members contributing who don't have access.

In summary, though unfortunately things go wrong, I am not sure it is the sort of thing we should encourage beginners to believe in case they come to think it is acceptable.

Nick, yes things go wrong, but also things happen that you don't notice such as a person coming in behind you, or a mirror on the wall you didn't spot. Then again sometimes a person may figure out a principle that is being used based on pure logic not because they saw anything.
For example with AC if you take the top card and push it in the middle in the cleanest possible way and it immediately rises to the top, logically someone may conclude a DL without ever knowing of the move or seeing a thing. They simply know it did not rise, can't see any way you could have sneaked it back from the middle and so draw the only logical conclusion left.
Also even with something you can do well, can and will be screwed up on occasion for any number of reasons.
I do however accept your point however that we should not have an attitude that accepts things will go wrong on more than the rare occasion and everytime it does go wrong we need to examine the "Why" in case it was something we have control over and we can learn lessons from.

You see while I agree it's dangerous to have an attitude of not being too bothered if things go wrong and you were clearly trying to stop this attitude developing, it's also a problem for a beginner to believe you should never ever be caught as they can become discouraged. I think it's about balance and knowing why you were caught.

I dont get caught out with the moves anymore (recently!!!) sometimes I get a little forgetful and forget a key card or something like that but on a few occasions i have supprised myself.... ones i took the deck back knowing i had no clue what there card was, started by saying how im having trouble finding there card are they sure they put it back?

then i ask them what there card is and continue to try and find it.... locate it (secretly!! ohhh) and palm it off and say its not there, give the pack to them to try to find... and plant the card.... cant believe it worked!

Happy Toad wrote:You see while I agree it's dangerous to have an attitude of not being too bothered if things go wrong and you were clearly trying to stop this attitude developing, it's also a problem for a beginner to believe you should never ever be caught as they can become discouraged. I think it's about balance and knowing why you were caught.

Fair enough, I would go with that.

Thanks Rumburak. That is a very comforting post.. I don't pretend to "perform" yet (except the odd childrens party) but I do try my stuff out on my family to see how far practice has got me.

Actually, people who know you are your toughest audience. They "know" you are doing "just a trick" and this will make it hard if not impossible to put them in the right state of mind.

Let me give you an example: Imagine walking down the street and a policeman appearing in front of you and demanding you to stop in a firm and authoritative voice and with an intimidating gesture. Would you do it? I bet, you would. Now imagine, instead, a beggar sitting on the ground and asking you silently without moving to wait. Would you do it now? Most people would not.

It is the person who asks you to do something and the situation you find yourself in. These factors determine how you will react.

Now imagine this: You are selected by a famous magician during his expensive show to join him on stage. In a firm voice with clarifying gestures perfectly fitting to his words he gives you directions. Would you follow his instructions to the letter or would you try to figure something out? I bet, you would not.

Some people still would try to do it, but a sufficiently skilled magician can identify cooperative individuals and stay clear from antagonistic ones.

Now imagine, you are approached by a friend who just bought a new trick from a magic shop and wants to show you how smart it is and that you cannot figure it out. Would you try to figure him out? I bet, almost everybody would!

You see, for creating magical entertainment, you need much more than just a working gimmick or a well-practiced sleight. They are the basics, but they are not enough.

Of course, you don't have an expensive show and reputation yet. Neither do I. But still we can try to emulate as many things as there are in our sphere of influence. Establish yourself as a magician and learn to give instructions with authority. And never forget that the single purpose of everything you are doing is to entertain.

As far as I am concerned this was an invaluable lesson. I work in practice with a mirror but then I know what I am looking for. My conclusion from this little try out was needs more practice! Thanks again for a realistic appraisal.

You are welcome! In this situation you indeed need to practice further. But keep in mind that it is NOT the gimmick/sleight/move that entertains, but your entire presentation.

nickj:

I feel that if I had an effect that I was so worried about that I actually prepared an out for it then I don't think I should be performing it in the first place.

Although I am sure you have far more technical skills and experience then I have I do disagree with you. Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.

I do agree, however, that your handling and presentation should be good enough that mechanics alone are unlikely to stop your show.

But should something go wrong, you still should be able to achieve your primary goal: to entertain!

I would also agree that this discussion (ie implying that there is a possibility of ever being caught out) is more dangerous exposure than revealing the workings of a trick, and I am sorely tempted to move it to MO except that there are members contributing who don't have access.

I also disagree with this one. There is so much discussion going on about which latest trick is best or how to practice a certain move or how to achieve X and Y. Yet there is so little discussion about how to make a show entertaining. But isn't that the primary purpose of doing magic?

Sure, it is exposure. But does it harm the art if people learn why we do what we are doing? Would you not want this to be the most important thing for a newbie to learn?

A really good thread this, there are some important points here.

I suppose from time to time we get caught up in our own world when we are performing a trick. We really want the spectator to be entertained.

I thank you for your point about people you know being your toughest audience, I hadn't thought of it like that. I must try more of my effects out at work.

I think sometimes that I forget that everybody knows that it is just a trick, that no magic is really being done.