talkmagic.co.uk

I have been looking into this area recently. (I tend to do quite a lot of research before choosing what I think is right for me) -

The first stack I learnt was Si Stebbins (aka Master System). This is a very easy system to remember. For any given card you can easily work out the card that goes before or after it. And then the next, and the next... and so on.
The cards are arranged in apparently random order of rank (but are not really random of course)
The big problem with this system is the order of the suits. CHaSeD. This means the cards are alternately red & black. This IS a pattern that spectators might spot. Unfortunately IMHO they don't need to understand the full system in order to spot something fishy!

I believe there is an alternative Stebbins stack that uses a more random (to the uninitiated) suit ordering?

There are other stacks that have similar properties. I believe Osterlind's BCS is one. Ie a simple formula to work out what the neighbours of each card are. This is definitely not CHaSeD order.

Any stack based on such a formula will allow you to perform a variety of effects. EG if a card is removed from the deck you immediately know what it is if you can see the card that was above/below it - easy if the spec cuts the cards & takes one.. If a card is inserted in the 'wrong' place, likewise you know it. In this sense the whole stack acts as a set of key cards for each other.

To go back to Paul's original posting - what other tricks are there that rely on a stack? Well, there must be thousands. EG get the 4 Aces and place them every 5th card from the top. Now deal 5 poker hands - you have the 4 Aces hooray! Ok that is a silly example, but you get the basic idea. But of course, that is a specific stack for a specific trick. I don't think this is what he really meant. I think he was referring to a general-purpose stack of the whole deck. [But I will come back to this in a minute.]

If you memorise an entire stack, you have a considerable advantage. You now know the exact position of any given card. This is potentially much more powerful than just knowing the immediate neighbours of each card. [There is a great thread on here called Who's Afraid of A Memorised Stack - by Bananafish I think]. One point he makes is that every trick that normally starts with a randomly selected card can now start with a randomly thought of card - because you know where to find that card in the deck.

The definition of a memorised deck according to (Simon Aronson) is one where you know by heart the 'stack position number' of every card. EG 10 Clubs is 35. If you have to work out the position, you have got a stack formula - not a memorised deck.
Aronson then makes the point that if you are going to memorise a whole stack you can dispense with the formula all together. This means you can choose whatever stack you like - you can build in other properties. And in fact his stack is specifically designed to give you all sorts of poker hands etc etc as I mentioned above!!!

Personally, I am seriously considering memorising a stack. Not sure which one yet. Also I don't know if it would be easier or harder to learn more than one (obviously one at a time).

One other concept I have come across in the context of stacked decks is card-marking systems. Traditionally each card is marked to indicate its own identity. When combined with a stack, there are (apparently) systems where the cards are marked with details of other cards in the stack. (EG immediate neighbours). Now there's lateral thinking!!!!

My knowledge so far is only an overview, but I hope this helps anyone else trying to understand the big picture re stacked deckc.

Take a look at Larry Becker's '13th Card' effect (I think it is in one of the World of Super Mentalism books). This uses a stacked deck in a totally different way to the norm.

I was reading this only last week, and it opens up some new possibilities!

Thanks for the responses thus far. When I posted the message I was actually thinking of a pre-arrangement for a particular trick (hence mentioning Abacus). This tends to make the trick impromptu but if the effect is spectacular then it may be worth it.

PB

i have my own stack which mjm are looking into at the moment,hopefully i will get a contract with them.

I have my own memorized tetradistic stack....and I can be sure that noone will have the same one so that's an advantage..also it allows you to do the same effects as ie. BCS(wasn't impress with that one ) and much more.....

Sorry, I have searched online dictionaries & can't find a definition for Tetradistic. The term IS used in magic forums - but never defined. Can you explain? Something to do with number 4 presumably.

will PM you

A major breakthrough for anyone using stacks: http://www.stackview.com/

I digress

On another note, Sal Piacente has a fantastic demonstration of 'memorising' a shuffled deck on his Lecture DVDs.

His 'Opener' effect is unbelieveable—a spectator repeatedly shuffles the deck, but it's possible to know the order of the cards.

And no, it's not a gimmick deck.

Si Stebbins' work has certainly grasped the imagination of many magicians, and like *most* stacked deck systems, the cards are shuffle in the same manner: Take some from the top, put them underneath—or as we know it, a cut.

But there are so many subtelties and mathematical situations where we can go one step beyond a simple cut, and use the stacked deck in more interesting ways:

1. Cutting into several piles. Rather than just a cut, have the spectator cut the deck into four piles (or more, or less?!?). They can then choose a pile. Discard the rest (NO magician's choice involved!).
Have them repeat this (cutting the deck into smaller chunks) until only one card remains.
When you take the penultimate cards away, a simple glimpse will reveal which card is left.
With a little imagination, this can be done with TWO spectators...

2. Charlier cuts, one handed magic: Mention to the spectator that you are going to 'go against the grain' of conventional card magic and use just one hand, which cuts the chances of you performing fancy sleight-of-hand down by 50% (in theory ).
So, put one hand behind your back. Spread the cards face-up, showing they are all different.
Gather the deck and Charlier cut the deck several times, until the speccy is satisfied. Charlier cuts are a great way to show the deck being genuinely cut, whilst at the same time keeping the stack order.
Now, when they are satisfied, spread the deck face-down. Ask them to touch any card. Remove the cards ABOVE that card. Ask them to withdraw their card.
It is easy to get a glimpse of the bottom of the pile in your hand, and by doing so, you know their card. Ask them to drop it back down, and replace the cards back in the deck. Next, gather the cards (back in order) and perform a Charlier cut a few more times.
WITH THE HAND THAT IS BEHIND YOUR BACK... have a Swami loaded, and have a blank card in your rear waistband. You should have had AMPLE time to write the name of their card with the swami.
Comment: "I told you this was a one handed trick, but I didn't mention which hand DID the trick..."—then bring the card from behind your back, place it face-down. Ask them the name of their card, and voila!

seige wrote:A major breakthrough for anyone using stacks: http://www.stackview.com/

I digress

On another note, Sal Piacente has a fantastic demonstration of 'memorising' a shuffled deck on his Lecture DVDs.

His 'Opener' effect is unbelieveable—a spectator repeatedly shuffles the deck, but it's possible to know the order of the cards.

Wow...great link....

Yes I agree...I have his Lecture notes on DVD and the effects are great....Opener is trully amazing....

seige wrote:A major breakthrough for anyone using stacks: http://www.stackview.com/

That's a very interesting piece of software. Expect a review shortly...

Siege,
I like the one handed variation.
Richard Osterlind gives a lovely magician fooler with a stack in his BCS ebook (I don't use his stack but I love his stuff and this can be applied to any stack). The effect goes like this. Spread the deck and magic friend takes a card. You drop the rest of the cards to the table without looking at any of them and get him to collect them and mix them up. He/she can keep the selection or mix it in with the rest. You look at the cards and instantly name the selection. Normal deck, no gimmicks but done with a stack.

I like to use a stack for a lie detector routine and get a spectator to help me. I often instant stooge them by getting them to hold my wrist, telling them that my pulse jumps when I hear a lie (old trick) and then get them to divine if one of the other spectators is telling the truth/lying about whether his/her card is red, a high number etc. Eventually the spectator divines the other spectators card without me saying a word.

I end using a deck of a different colour (blue), held by a different spectator (call her Mary) throughout the previous routine as a prediction. A spectator (call him Bob) mixes the red deck, takes a card and pockets it without looking at it. I don't even touch the deck (use another technique from Osterlinds BCS ebook to fill in the blanks). The blue deck is shown to have a single card faced down (or it could be a different colour- obvious to magicians). We then hold the cards (one prediction, blue backed, one selection red backed) face down side by side. I show the prediction to everyone else (apart from Bob) and then the selection is turned over. First reaction from the rest of the crowd. At this point Bob is still in the dark. Pause and let him see that they match- second reaction from him, and also from the crowd at his reaction.


Long description I know. I hope it's clear enough. Didn't want to tip too much on an open forum that's why I have been vague on details.

Try it out

Shanester

Seige: there's a trick on the Born and Dean DVD set that's very similar to the one-handed one you posted above.

In effect, you say "this is a one-handed trick" and put one hand in your pocket. You then take the deck with your other hand and have a card selected and replaced. Perform some magical gesture and count through the cards - there are 51 and the selection isn't there. Then take out the other hand and it's holding it...

Kati

There are some very good 4 ace tricks where you position the aces in a certain spot, no necesarily stcked deck though. If you are under tight observation, a perfect rifle shuffle 8 times returns every card to it's exact starting location.