talkmagic.co.uk

I do not understand this line:

Sure, a way around this is to post ALL submissions after the judging is done - but then why not just post them all publicly in the first place?

What do you mean?

In answer for all the rest, I feel that the discussion is loosing its basis. My subject of this threas was "TM MAGIC CONTEST". Let me underline, contest. It's a competition. Let's turn it all around. Would you care to enter a contest, if you knew that the result of the contest was totally random, because everyone had the same level of technique, smoothness and experience? No, because that's not a contest. If we are supposed to announce a contest, then we need basic elements to judge on. And if one magician have a better DL than the other, of course I would rate/judge him better. If that scares you as a magician, knowing or thinking that another magician is better than you, then just don't attend. Noone is asking you or begging you to join, this is a offer for magicians that would like to challenge fellow-magicians in a fair, informal, fun and open contest, with basically, nothing to loose.

I don't see the problem with people copying my routine either. First of all, the original will always be the original. Second, fair magicians always credit other magicians, if they use moves, ideas or something from others. Thirdly, aren't we all copying moves, routines, effects from magicians already? I know I am....

I don't think this will kill the enthusiasm or the creativity at all. We will just have different point of entries, for those who will share videos. Some can share ideas in our locked forums, others might share videos in the file forum, while others want to take part of a contest, to see how they do.

What's so bad about it? If people don't like the idea, or if we kill magicians self-confidence, their creativity or enthusiasm, well, then we just drop the contest for the future.... For all I know, this is a stupid idea, which noone will care about or enter. If so, we'll just drop it. Just as easy as that. But on the other hand, turning the thumb down, will never let us know what they think.

My major argument is, if you enter a contest, you must believe and understand that you might infact get no votes. It's like that in every kind of contest.

Rune -

You said that the submissions would be sent via email - and no one would see submissions before the deadline. What I was saying was - if you intend to show ALL submissions once the contest is over, why not just have the entire contest be in public - where the submissions can be viewed from the start.

I never said the basis of the contest was a bad idea - I was simply pointing out (and you cannot tell me I'm wrong) that SOME people may shy away from competing simply because a more technically proficient magician is involved. I wasn't saying you shouldn't have the competition, I was just expanding upon the point Katriel made (which is an extremely valid point). As such, you need to have FIRM guidelines which will allow those with less skill to compete, and still expect to be judged fairly.

As for the creativity - I wasn't sure if you had said whether or not ALL submissions would be shown after the contest was over. Creativity and enthusiasm suffers when submissions are never shown - that's all I was saying. I just wanted to know whether JUST the winners would be posted on the TM boards, or if all the videos would be displayed. (as an example - Online Visions only posts the winner and a few other submissions in their contests - not ALL).

Basically, I agree with you Rune. However, I think the ENTIRE contest should be in public from start to finish.

You said that the submissions would be sent via email - and no one would see submissions before the deadline. What I was saying was - if you intend to show ALL submissions once the contest is over, why not just have the entire contest be in public - where the submissions can be viewed from the start.

Answer
To make it fair. A submission that is available public longer than others, will more likely be more "liked" and be unfair. If all videos are published on the same day, they will be public available for voting in the same ammount of time and days.

As such, you need to have FIRM guidelines which will allow those with less skill to compete, and still expect to be judged fairly.

Answer
Totally agree. We should encourage everyone to attend, but we need to inform them that most likely, everyone will be voted on, based on a personal reference from everyone. And of course, if you then compete with more techniqual skilled persons, you will most likely get less votes. But, that shouldn't be a problem for our attendeed to understand. If you are going to compete in Tour de France, you understand, even before you start the race, that you will never win, if Armstrong is on the start...

As for the creativity - I wasn't sure if you had said whether or not ALL submissions would be shown after the contest was over.

Answer
ALL submissions will be posted in the forum. ALL submissions will be possible to vote on. NOONE will be let out.

Basically, I agree with you Rune. However, I think the ENTIRE contest should be in public from start to finish.

Answer
Good, but I think I still think everything should be "non-public", and made available from a moderator. Reasons:

- makes it more fair, as all posts will be available for the public to just watch, the same ammount of time and days
- moderators can eliminate possible videos that shouldn't be allowed in the contest (based on rules and guidelines, for instance video cutting etc)

I see your point, and I never considered the longevity factor... but you're absolutely right. A video that has been up longer will naturally be favored.

Well, I'm out of comments. When is the first contest? I'd love to get trounced!!!

::secretly crosses fingers, hoping the first contest won't be coin magic::

One idea might be to have a contest running and the voting for the last contest going on at the same time...

Kati

So, based on the last days dicussions, who's thumb is up or down?

Mine goes up...

Shall I make a poll to check?

Kati

Sure

Thumb's up

Actually, one easy way to do the contest might be as follows.

1. Have a post open in the File-Sharing forum for 1 week or however long it lasts for for all submissions of videos. These should be emailed privately to a mod and not posted in the open area.

2. At the conclusion of the week, all the submitted videos are posted simultaneously and a poll is started to decide on the winner.

3. At the same time, a new contest is opened for submissions.

4. etc

Agree, though I am not sure if we should run so simultaneous, but I am open for it. The practical things for this, is pretty easy to agree on, we just need to find a smart way to do it

if the videos are public from the beginning of the contest until the end, then someone might steal a move someone else made up and claim that they made it up themselves?

just a suggestion


i'd suggest that only a board of judges select the winning videos, instead of a public vote, but that would put too much strain on the judges

I think magic competitions start as fun and lead to fall outs. I'd avoid them if I was you.

myseasheep,

very good point !

myseasheep wrote:i'd suggest that only a board of judges select the winning videos, instead of a public vote, but that would put too much strain on the judges

What about the judges pick a final 3 or something like that, then the members of the forum get to decide the winner?

If the entries get PM'd to a Mod or Judge, then nobody will be able to copy the trick because they will all be posted at the same time.