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Hello - was just going through my ample Derren collection and I'm curious about how he does part of his card routine at the casino. A few questions:

1) first thing, Derren says "say I wanted to cut off 15 cards, I would do this" and cuts off 15. I assume this is done with a short? The count was legit.

2) Next he gets a croupier to cut off and he calls the amount as 28 - I assume this is either crimped or another short? The lift was from the ends so I think the short more likely.

3) Next he lets the spectator give him a number and he cuts off that quantity - I think he uses the "2 different odd numbers" (Psychological Subteleties/Banachek I think?)to force the cut (He mentions something to that effect on the commentary). Then a bit of equivoce to cover himself.

4) DB rants about counting cards by looking at them side on - I can do this roughly but was he just misdirecting or is it feasible to get this down perfectly?

5) That's all fine - but then he gets a spectator to name a card and he cuts to that card. She calls the 9 clubs and I didn't see or hear any forces to that effect (pretty hard to force a 9). I'm really lost on this one - is this something that can be done with a Brainwave Deck? He cuts the deck after the card is called, but it still threw me.

Thanks for any help - number 5 is the one I cant replicate in any way...

Paul

Unfortunately we can't really answer these questions in an open forum as it would be classed as exposure to reveal any methods Derren may or may not use. The one thing I am reasonably sure of is that his statements are more than likely to be deliberately misleading so, if he says he's counting 28 cards, then you can safely assume he's doing something completely different!

I did post a reply but then read Mandrake's so hastily removed it .

I will say however that it is possible to cut to a number of cards named purely through practice - whether this is how Derren does it or not I don't know, but it is possible.

There is (or was) a deck out by Gary Sumpter, the name of which escapes me now, but it does allow you to cut to any named card. Again, whether this was the deck used by Derren I don't know.

All I'll say about Q4...*EDITED!*... what that means. If any of this is deemed as exposure feel free to edit.

EDIT: Taken it upon myself to edit this post just in case

ok - sorry

What do I need to do to be able to get into the restricted bit? I've got some interesting bits and pieces I could review, I'll get writing

There's a 'Sticky' at the start of the MO section which tells most of what folks need to know. As I said above, we can't reveal anything in the Open Area and not a great deal more in the MO section either as many visiting professionals have access to it so anything revealed in there will be stuff created by the members.

Any discussions of a specific nature are probably best handled via PM or e-mail .

EternalYang wrote:4) DB rants about counting cards by looking at them side on - I can do this roughly but was he just misdirecting or is it feasible to get this down perfectly?

As Cardza has mentioned earlier in the thread, this is perfectly possible - and is simply a matter of practice with trial-and-error. I think I saw Derren perform this when it was originally on TV and the next day I went about specific numbers of cards. It doesn't take as long to master as Derren made out (I think).

I now use this skill, even though it's hit and miss nowadays as I don't practice enough, with a deck of Beyond ESP 2 cards - the 'nearly got it right' element lends itself to mentalism and with these cards it works a treat.

Until you "get it right" I can recommend Marlo's Spade routine which looks the same but it's not "estimation" and you don't have to practise....you have to be able to do 2 perfect Faro's....and it can be done from a fresh opened deck of cards which is pure beauty...you can find it on Allan Ackerman DVD on "Faro Shuffle" (I think it's DVD no.7) and on Expert Card Magic from Sal Piacente...hope that helps...

Encyclopaedia of Card Tricks may offer you some guidance, if you recognise it as such. I'm not sure of Derren's methods, but having played around with estimations, and thinking of a method that would improve ones guessing skills, there is a way which would assist. So... Encyclopaedia of Card Tricks, work, imagination and a gaff deck. Good luck!

I know its possible to cut to a specific number of cards with practice I have done this myself.. while not attempting to

I just thought of 18 ( just now ) and cut the deck, counted them out and there were 18 exactly!! I did kind of surprise myself however!!! Im not going to try a second time through fear of failure!!

Im sure though there are many menthods...

assuming that the deck isn't shuffled, I can think of a very accurate way of doing this. I can't really write too much here but a combination of 2 (or possibly 3) very common techniques would work nicely.

...but basically, i know its tempting to try and reverse engineer someone's work who you admire, but ultimately, rather than trying to work out someone else's effect, why not put that time and effort into coming up with your own stuff?

not to sound too harsh, i mean the above in a positive way, plus - well, its what its all about surely? your own creativity and thoughts to building your own effects and ideas...

There is (or was) a deck out by Gary Sumpter, the name of which escapes me now, but it does allow you to cut to any named card. Again, whether this was the deck used by Derren I don't know.

I think this deck was called in-decks. It used to be sold on magictricks.co.uk but I'm not sure they do it anymore. I wasn't a fan of it particularly but a clever idea.

In Tricks of the Mind Derren claims that he can actually cut to any number of cards and says that's how he did it in that particular routine.

He could be bullsh****ng as usual but in the context I'm inclined to believe him.

He mentions this effect in his (available to the public) book 'tricks of the mind'. And anyone familiar with the works of tamariz or aronson will know the answer to number 5.

AndyRegs wrote:He mentions this effect in his (available to the public) book 'tricks of the mind'. And anyone familiar with the works of tamariz or aronson will know the answer to number 5.

really? I havent looked at this in a while.....where abouts? what page/chapter? I better start re-reading it again