talkmagic.co.uk

pickpocketing for magicians forum

how could that be a section. that would be better as a thread

Zero000 wrote:how could that be a section. that would be better as a thread

I'm beginning to see a serious trend of reluctance in this forum... the management just don't want to use the formulas that have made other forums successful when it comes to navigation. Seems to me, you'd want to make things much more accessible and convenient to the patron...

It is not the case that we don't want anything to be changed, however, the suggestions need careful discussion as to whether they really are going to be of benefit. In this current example, in the past five years I can't think of more than five or so threads that have been started regarding pickpocketing, where would the advantage be in a pick-pocketing area to the site if it only has one thread started per year? Ok so it might encourage slightly more discussion but I doubt that it would be a busy and thriving area of the forum.

As for your own interests in mentalism, Craig, I can assure you that we aren't just ignoring the issue of a mentalism area, but, as has come up in other threads on it, there are various ideas of what mentalism really is so we don't want to introduce friction in a mentalism area because one person considers something to be appropriate for discussion there whilst another thinks that it is not really mentalism. To that end we have been defining how a mentalism area would be composed for future integration as well as the possible removal of surpluss rooms. Ultimately, we are trying to avoid ending like another forum which has, in my opinion, far too many areas, making it hard to find relevent information.

Also, if you don't like the way this forum is managed, you are free to leave whenever you like

I think with a pick pocket section you may have a sudden rush of 'alternative street magicians' signing up for membership to see if they can gain a few tips to increase their earning potential on the underground (if you see what I mean).

Actually, in regards to the Pick Pocket issue I personally believe that it is a topic that could easily fit under the heading of Cabaret or even Street Magic/Busking... ironically, it is used a great deal in mentalism as well, but not to the level or in the manner I believe our friend here is wanting to flow in discussions.

The big thing that concerns me about the Pick Picket issue, is the more covert elements around it. More than Mentlaism, this is a skill that gets seriously abused. I've have some degree of concern over that kind of thing but then again, we cannot govern everyone or what they do with the things they learn herein.

As to the Mentalism category nickj, I'll send you a copy of an article I'm working on for TOP HAT that may help you see the various dimensions of the field and why they exist. I personally do not see where this will create "division" or problems directly. About the only time "issues" arise are when the hard core (and typically inexperienced) skeptic/cynic types want to cram their philosophy into the situation and detract from the techniques and practices associated with Mentalism for the past half dozen or so generations that it's been around. Forums like MIND & MAGIC, the KJBoard, etc. have had very few major conflicts. In the instances of "problems" at the Magic Bunny or even the Cafe, it's general issues from the ardent skeptics that trigger the problem... they start off in a passive mode baiting in the old school student of mentalism or "believers" (and they love to pick on those of us that specialize in Readings) and suddenly, turn the tables on the deal trying to make their target look like a fool, etc.

I just think it very odd that this forum hasn't modeled itself off of the proven forumlas we see elsewhere in that you use the same "easy" software, etc.

Craig Browning wrote:

this is a skill that gets seriously abused. I've have some degree of concern over that kind of thing but then again, we cannot govern everyone or what they do with the things they learn herein.

I do agree with this statement and whilst we can't be accountable, we can and do need to be responsible for ensuring that we don't unwittingly assist those who are pick pocketing for illegal gain.

It's a difficult line to draw but one that should non the less be considered.

What constitutes abuse is something that can, and has been debated, certainly as far as such things as reading are concerned and we don't need to get into that here.

As you are no-doubt aware, I am not a practicing mentalist, however, I am aware of certain different branches of the topic. I am just worried that there are those who consider 'mental magicians', possibly even magicians as a whole to be a lowly breed to be derided at every oportunity. Equally, there are the oppostie types who feel that mentalism requires no (little technical) skill. As a magic forum we fortunately have very few, if any, of the latter type, but I am worried that we might see an influx of the former type poo-pooing many legitimate discussions of mental magic if we were to start a mentalism section without proper guidelines as to what is allowed. Give us time to sort out the proper format and a mentalism section may appear.

You have a point nickj and I'm totally amiss as to how to deal with that kind of thing. On the other hand, I find that such types prefer to be around "their own" if you get my drift.

Your reference to Being a Reader got a chuckle out of me (you know me better than I thought )

Corinda states quite clearly that it is the single most important and powerful skill any mentalist can cultivate and yet, it has become the single most berrated and misunderstood/misrepresented aspect of mentalism in recent years. The irony of it all is that so many want to learn about how to do it effectively and yet, they don't want to use it for how it was intended so as to fall into alignment with the supposed status quo.

Yes, this is a skill that can be and is frequently abused just as pick pocketing, gambling/card techniques, etc. We're fooling ourselves if we don't think people don't misuse the whole gambit of magic technology and then some. Like a gun or nuclear energy, the technology is innocent and can actually deliver a great deal of pleasure to the majority of folks but then you get those one or two idiots that misuse it and give it a bad name.

Human beings can bastardize just about anything... heck, look at what we American's can do to othewise good food We can likewise become overly paranoid or "zealot" on most any given issue rather than take in a more rounded and complete sense of perspective when it comes to issues. The truth of the matter being that very few of the flim flam artists out there that extort folks as Readers use any of the techniques we frequently discuss; it's frequently more blantant that that and far more cruel.

About two weeks ago my local paper had a headline about a local Psychic that was busted for Larceny... she'd taken a couple of folks for over $20,000.00 each via the old "I'll caste a spell to remove the curse" routine... which is how 90% of the charlatans actually do their dirty work (regardless of what Randi & Co may want you to believe.) And yes, I am presently working with the police and area media on this issue.

Whether it's Pick-Pocketing, Hypnosis, doing Readings or whathaveyou, it can all be abused and this is one of the reasons many of we older types have a deep concern with how accessible magic has become; especially in a cultural era in which young people glamorize gangsta types and image and think it's cool to rip people off so long as you don't get caught doing it. We've lost our morals and ethics and our humanity in so many ways in recent times...

enough of my babbling, I think you can get the gist of where I'm at on the issues.

I just think it very odd that this forum hasn't modeled itself off of the proven forumlas we see elsewhere in that you use the same "easy" software, etc.

In many respects, the reluctance and differences noted are due to technical issues in the background of TM - all of which are being worked on but there's only so much time available to do this kind of work. To a certain extent, I'm pleased that we don't follow the same formulae as elsewhere as we'd be no different from them and, if nothing else, we do try (and like) to be different!

Craig Browning wrote:

especially in a cultural era in which young people glamorize gangsta types and image and think it's cool to rip people off so long as you don't get caught doing it. We've lost our morals and ethics and our humanity in so many ways in recent times...

I totally agree with you there. Individuality is being eroded away to the point where many youngsters daren't be different.

Craig Browning wrote: Your reference to Being a Reader got a chuckle out of me (you know me better than I thought )

Well, you have to do a bit of pre-show research sometimes! I was actually a member of Mind & Magic when it first formed, though I didn't stay around for long as it wasn't really my thing, so I have known about you and your interests for quite a while!

nickj wrote:

Craig Browning wrote: Your reference to Being a Reader got a chuckle out of me (you know me better than I thought )

Well, you have to do a bit of pre-show research sometimes! I was actually a member of Mind & Magic when it first formed, though I didn't stay around for long as it wasn't really my thing, so I have known about you and your interests for quite a while!

Ahh... most point to VISIONS or TOP HAT