talkmagic.co.uk

Hey

I was wondering if any one could tell me some good movies and books that teach novice level flourishes.

kemo

Xtreme Beginners DVD, from Ellusionist.com.

'Nuff said!

TheMightyNubbin wrote:Xtreme Beginners DVD, from Ellusionist.com.

'Nuff said!

Agreed!

Atta-boy Kemo!!!!!

Like I told you once before.......learning some flourishes can add to your performance, but more importantly, they can be used to catch someones attention when you are trying to reel in a spec for street magic.

would i get shot down for suggesting "showoff with cards" by Rob Stiff?
at least he can actually teach at a decent standard

Larry wrote:would i get shot down for suggesting "showoff with cards" by Rob Stiff?

You would by me and countless others!

Larry wrote:at least he can actually teach at a decent standard

Err, no he can't - the teaching is generally bad, don't take my word for it, look at other reviews. An example, look at the flip back fan in the demo, then go over to superhandz.com and see De'Vo do it. Plus Rob Stiff is the least ethical guy in magic.


I would strongly, with a 3 line whip, recommend you go for XB over Showoff with cards - any day of the week, any time, any place - no contest!

Saving 15 bucks is a false economy - XB is in a different league!

anyway....................
(i'll not recommend it then)

That's right ... i mean ... 15 Bucks wouldn't even buy you a movie for your PSP!

Rob

I know that there are those here who think that XB is the best thing since sliced bread for card flourishes and it most probably is. However, Show Off with Cards seems to always come in for a slating as soon as it's mentioned without there being too much subjective reasoning behind what's said.

The question asked at the start of this thread was answered by making a reference to XB and that's fine. No problem with this. But, as soon as SOWC was offered up as an alternative this seems to raise a few people's backs just at the mere mention of it. It's a bit like saying "I drive a Ferrari so it's got to be the best car". You need to realise that some people just want to nip around the block from time to time and an old Ford Fiesta will accomplish this too. No where near as flashy but adequate for what's needed.

If you're wanting to learn ONLY flourishes then sure, get XB. But if you're like like some others and you're only wanting to add a few easy flourishes to compliment your card magic just as Moodini commented, then XB may well be over the top for your needs. Both titles PERHAPS have their place in the scheme of things.

I would also challenge the comment that Rob Stiff can't teach. There's no doubt that he can if you watch the DVD. He may not teach the methods that you prefer and he may deliver his teaching in a different style to Devo and others. This doesn't mean that he can't teach. Teaching is about imparting knowledge to others and has nothing to do with Stiff's ethics.

I don't care too much for Stiff so I'm not defending him for what others think of him, just making a point about how advice is offered.

I found that SOWC was most suitable for what I needed which was to add a few, simple flourishes between my card tricks.The comments that I received from specs would appear to have made my choice worthwhile. I could have bought XB and learnt a better style of Charlier cut, one handed fan, knuckle cut etc. but would my specs notice? The answer is no!

If I'm wanting to entertain people with flourishes instead of magic, and wanting to compete against other flourishers then yes, I would buy and recommend XB.

Make up your mind what you want to get out of flourishes and buy accordingly.

dat, if you got something useful out of SOWC then more power to you!

The original question posed was 'i want to learn beginner level flourishes'. Given his requirements XB is the natural choice, it's a much better beginner product with clearer and correct teaching than SOWC.

As I've commented before, if you learn something from any DVD and consider the amount of money you paid for it to be reasonable for that material then you're quids in, this seems to be your opinion with SOWC.

However, and this by no means invalidates your opinion, your opinion of SOWC is the minority view of this product. I would ask anybody to go to the magic cafe, magic bunny, dan and dave, 21 ace etc - and check out the reviews. Now most people wont be bothered to do that - but if you're thinking about shelling out cash then you really should.

Anyway I'll save you all the time! The concencus view was the ability and teaching of the guy on SOWC (and I don't think it is all Rob Stiff BTW) was poor. Some moves were just plain slaughtered.

Unfortunatly the Ford Fiesta versus Ferrari, 'a Fiesta is about good enough' argument doesn't hold water in this case. Because, there is a $15 difference between the two, not the same difference in percentage terms between a Fiesta and a Ferrari!

The final and ultimate coffin nail for me is Magic Makers Inc are about the most unethical company in magic. They've ripped off so many effects it's untrue. In the case of SOWC they ripped off Tudor and De'Vo without getting permission.

Would you buy a DVD if you knew if used Bill Malone's 'Sam The Bellhop' without his permission?

Regardless of the poor teaching etc for this reason alone I would never buy a Magic Makers product - you're encouraging theft of other people's work.

If you're looking for quite basic flourishes then you'd probably find something like Mark Wilson's Complete Course of use...then after that you could move on to Expert at the Card Table or Drawing Room Deceptions (has some good stuff). I think that Daryl, Ammar and Jeff McBride have whole DVD volumes out on this. I may be wrong, but I'm sure they do.

I know that specs may not notice the difference in the quality of the flourishes. But, I just like to do flourishes for my own sake! I find it a really nice and fun hobby to do.

SOWC was my first flourishes DVD and also the worst. I find the teaching really poor and the guy teaching the moves hasn't quite mastered them himself. Okay... he's better than me but still! lol

Bear in mind though I don't think it's too good an idea to be dazzling 'em with your flourishes; what would you rather be: someone who's magic is thought to be a series of clever card handling or someone who's magic is seen to be impossible?

i don't want to learn those cuts that you would only ever use if you are trying to be a sohw off... i just want to learn some cool stuff like the hot shot cut, a couple quic one-hand cuts... the one hand riffle shuffel, stuff like that... that i may be able to work into a trick

kemo

Well, those are a bit different...

For some very basic flourishes you can work into your routines, Born to Perform is good...has the hot shot cut and one of my favourite false cuts, the Trinary cut.

The one-handed riffle is harder to learn...I think Penguin (poo ) has an instant download and it's on b***** Hard Moves Made Easy...other places too I think.

Kati