talkmagic.co.uk

ok, story goes like this:
i was in a club last saturday night and i notice this kid (he looks about 14, this is a nightclub, dear me, those people from hull!) doing some form of card trick for someone, as i get closer he's revealing their card to be the only one face up in the deck. i gasp in astonishment and appauld the boy, but it seems he knows not the ways of sarcasm and says "yes, I'm a magician, want to see something?", how could i say no? he then goes on to show me a few tricks and involve: gimmicked decks, that annoying trick where u turn the bottom card over to make it look like the whole deck is face down, and... a 2 headed coin! of course at this point one of my friends leans over my shoulder and slurrs "that's £$&?, Larry, you show him how to do it" so i ran a simple ACR at him and he was quite shocked. i think i may have hurt the boys feelings. i left wondering what it is that actually makes someone a magician, he was getting some good reactions.
/RANT

anyway, can you class someone who just uses gimmicks, and has no real skill, as a magician? or is it based on how you can make your audience feel? i know the people the boy was doing tricks for certainly saw magic, whereas, i know that some of the things i do are seen as "slight of hand" and it can sometimes make the audience feel they've seen someone quite talented, rather than seeing magic.

Well I guess if you do magic then you're a magician. The word 'magician' however, does make me think of somebody who does it for a living. For example "what do you do?", "oh I'm a magician". I would never respond like this as magic is just a hobby for me, but I'm still techincally a magician (I think )

Nail! Head!
see what i mean, dude?
i don't think i've ever actually called myself a magician, i usually just say "i can do some magic" or something.

That is a Brilliant question ... i've just sat here thinking about it for 5 minutes and all i have achieved so far is a headache!

I have never said I am a magician, I say that I can do magic.

"Magician" sounds kind of old fashioned I think. It's not really cool, like magic is now

Or something

Hi

I agree with mahony if you perform magic then your a magician and as for gaffs if they get a good result then I am happy to use them but I do not rely on them.

As for calling yourself a magician if you looking for work it helps to spread the word and naming myself as a magician has helped me get gigs.

My 2p

Dean

Wow......what a deep subject!

Personally.........

I would say that anyone that uses magic to entertain people could consider themselves to be a magician........now they may be an "amateur magician, a magical hobbyist, or a professional working magician" there is a broad spectrum of what you could be called......take for example golf......you can be a golfer, a golf enthusiast, a competitive golfer, and amateur, a professional golfer, and the list goes on.....everyone has the right to call themselves a "golfer" providing they represent and class themselves appropriately.

The use of gaffs doesn't eliminate you from being a magician.....that would mean that David Copperfield is not a magician!!!! His large illusions ar all about gaffs, etc.....so therefore it is about the entertainment that he is providing, not the tools he uses to provide it!

If you can pick up ordinary unprepared objects (such as cards) and do magical things with them - you're a Magician.
If you can create routines and ideas, think 'outside the box' using props, gaffed or otherwise and do them - you're a Magician.
If you just 'do tricks' then you have some way to go before calling yourself a Magician but you're probably on the right road.

Next question - when do you start calling yourself a Conjurer !

I call myself a magician. I tend to walk up to people and ask "Would you like to see a bit of magic?" Most often they'll say yes and voila! Then I make jokes of how magic is more important than studies (is it? LoL)

So when can I call myself Gandalf? Do I need a fake beard or something?

Some food for thought larry! If you were performing a routine for someone and had been getting good reactions and that person at the end took your cards and started to do things that were more exciting ..and started to steal some of your lime light how woud you feel?
We all have been in this situation were we have seen someone performing and the little voice in side says , i can do better than that..maybe you can,but it is that performers bit of glory not yours...yes ok when the time permitted and he was on his own ok..show a little bit..
i found myself in the same situation once and i took this magicians limelight away for a while and realised it was wrong...we get enough other chances to showofff.As for calling yourself a magician never liked the name magician.
mim

Good question, and I completely agree with Moodini and Mandrake - techinically someone who performs the impossible and does tricks is a magician in the eyes of the audience.

Magicians tend to be a bit more picky, and take in to account what sort of reasons these people perform for. If they just do it to make themselves look clever than those they perform for we tend to think of them as 'tricksters' but not magicians. Sometimes if we see someone perform badly we don't like to consider them magicians as they damage the art, but really anyone who does magic is a magician.

There is, however, a difference between being a magician and an entertainer.

A good magician combines the two.

(i didn't steal his limelight, it was just me, him and my drunken friend. i don't make a point of doing magic in crowded rooms when i want to be left alone.)
anyway, next portion of the topic! what IS magic?
i'll say again that some people on seeing someone perform some card tricks will walk away saying "that guy was very talented, nice slight of hand skills" and so forth, not neccesarilly a magical experience. but if you involve the audience, make it an experience that is in some way personal to them, involves their participation deeply, try and astound them in some way beyond you having some slight of hand skills, then hopefully they wil walk away feeling like they have seen something truely magical, something that will hopefully stay with them.

Derren Brown answers this question, albeit indirectly, in one of his books (although a quick glance through them both just now has proved unsuccesful in finding exactly where) - apparently, when table-hopping, he would introduce himself as 'a kind of magician.'

It's a phrase I've used many times - it can get you out of that tight spot where your mate says 'oh yeah, he can do magic, show them something' to someone you don't know. It also instantly creates a more genuine interest in what you're about to do, if you're feeling playful and keen.

So, in answer to your question, I'd never call myself a magician - I'm a kind of magician.

Go buy his books - Absolute Magic and Pure Effect. They are WELL-WORTH the read.

And bl**dy funny, too...

At what point in the learning of an instrument is someone a musician? Is it when they have mastered their instrument or when they first perform?

Considering how the definition of the word is:

One who performs magic for entertainment or diversion

I would say that kid is a magician.

You can label yourself a magician whenever you want as long as you perform magic. (Hell, you could do it otherwise.) You could squable over someone defining themselves as a magician if you don't think they are. But whats the point. Screw them, go learn a new trick.

speaking as a person who's act is 90% gaffs and used to make a living at it, i'd still call myself a magician.
well actualy i don't...... I'm an entertainer through and through, take joe pasqualee as a good example he is an entertainer that combines magic and comedy.
most people are not aware that he is a competent magician in his own right and equaly capable of astounding his audiences.

so anyone performing magic is a magician wether it be a change bag or a deck of cards but that does not make them an entertainer who needs to combine several spheres from psycolgy through misdirection to comedy to entertain there audiences so I'm an entertainer, a magician is too restrictrive a title for me sorry.

what is magic..... well to me magic is the ability to persuade someone that they have just witnessed something that defies logic that could be a simple coin vanish or having your head chopped off by a laser beam.
its being able to make people suspend there disbileaf for a few moments or several hours / days.
ok thats the definition i work by but to tell you the truth magic for me is the glow in the eyes of a spectater when you have just created a memory that they will carry with them for years to come.