talkmagic.co.uk

if anyone wanted to become a pickpocket, be able to escape from various law enforcement confinements, or change their appearence in the blink of an eye to escape capture, one would only need to walk into a magic shop.
is putting "this should only be used for entertainment purposes" at the start of any teachings enough to stop it being a class on how to be a criminal?
this has come to me after forgetting to return a mobile phone to someone after a small performance, luckily i found the guy and he was understanding, but it made me think "I'm one step away from being a thieving criminal here"
now i know that a lot of those kind of teachings couldn't be performed in a ...er... non-performance environment, but if someone did want to pick pockets or open a locked safe, escape from handcuffs, they could find all they need in a magic shop. and something about all this just doesn't sit right with me.
(i suppose it's one of those "it's down to the student" type things, a car is quite easily a deadly weapon but it's easy enough to buy one. and on that note, americans can get their hands on a firearm)
/RANT

entering state of confusion.

I think it's down to intent. You didn't mean to keep that guy's phone, had no intention of doing so in fact.

As I see it, Information is not a crime. It's what you do with it that counts.

i think that#s the conclusion I'm coming to.
like owning a car, or a gun, etc....
(thinks back to the court scene in x-men)

next ponder is: how many criminals take advantage of the extra learning available at their local magic shop?

ye oldey magic shoppie graduated from the thieves guild so thats why there so closely related.

by nature a magician's roll is to decieve and lie convincingly under the thinly vield guise of entertainment after all in the olden days a magician would do his stuff wile the cut-purses were operating on the crowds, the proceeds to be split later on.

today magician's are entertainers demonstrting the skill's of yestayears thieves and confidence tricksters free of all the bonds of moral degradation.
but still we are lying and cheeting our audiences for profit we are decieving them as to the true nature of objects and devices and convincing them that falsehoods are reality in the search for fame and fortune, so how are we any diferent from any other conman.

simply this... the audience gives us permision to decieve them and con them and lie to them for there enjoyment.
we are simply providing the service that they request, moraly we are sanctified and blessed.

next ponder is: how many criminals take advantage of the extra learning available at their local magic shop?

ps none of what is avalable in a magic shop has not already been avalable to the criminal fraternity see above quotes.

magicdiscoman wrote:by nature a magician's roll is to decieve and lie convincingly under the thinly vield guise of entertainment after all in the olden days a magician would do his stuff wile the cut-purses were operating on the crowds, the proceeds to be split later on.

That's one way of securing your fee!

magicdiscoman wrote:#all of it#

well, that set me straight, cheers!
if i ever decide to become a criminal i'll have a start on some things at least

Tomo's spot on when he says that it's down to intent.

To be honest, most of the resources that you need are available online if you know where to look. However, you will NOT get the necessary information from any magic shop on how to open a safe and there are a lot of misconceptions about people being able to open a safe. Don't believe what you see on TV or film about safe cracking. Likewise, the majority of locks used on or in property in this day and age are not easy to pick either. There have been significant advances in the technology used and it's true to say that you get what you pay for.

section 1 of the theft act states, a person commits theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the INTENTION of permanently depriving the other of it

im sure you are well safe from that


Jags

and of course before you buy these things from a magic shop im pretty much certain they ask to look at CRBs or you have to be a certain age.. well something like that

I thinks it the Tommy Cooper shop in Blackpool where they see CRBs, again dont quote me on this one


jags

It's highly unlikely that anything you get from a magic shop will be of much use opening locks and picking pockets in the real world.

Besides, all you have to do is slip up ONCE and you won't have anything to worry about. For a very long time. If ever.

There are many trades or hobbies that teach skills that used wrongly could be used for criminal purposes. Some obvious ones include, locksmiths, policemen, private detectives, body guards etc. I think it would be ridiculous if these skills were not taught in case it was used by criminals, esp since criminals would still find ways of learning them.

Absolutely right, HT.

Let's ban DIY shops from selling bits of wood (you could hit someone with it), bolt cutters (cut through security chains, fencing and padlocks), axes, Stanley knives, power drills, chisels, screwdrivers, etc. (all potentially usable as weapons) and spray paint (could be used for graffiti).

There was some talk of banning the sale of pointed kitchen knives, because they get used in domestic incidents, which stuck me as absolutely absurd. So, they're the first thing to hand. If they aren't sold any more, people will use something else, won't they?

Peter, you may think that the items magic shops sell wouldn't be any use in the real world, but I know of a couple that sell things like key guns and those are issued to law enforcement personnel (I believe) to allow them rapid access to properties.

I have bought key guns a number of times (for security staff in a Government department) and we always had to get a document signed and official looking to do so. Funnily enough, I've seen the same key gun in the possession of a magical type and he bought it over the counter after the proprietor assured himself of the credentials (i.e. talked about escapology, locks, etc. for about ten minutes) of the buyer.

Technically, intent and circumstance seem to be the key in being 'equipped'. That is - find yourself outside a bank with one in your hand at 02:30 and you're most certainly nicked

Happy Christmas all,

Vic

True Vic.

The law assumes that you're innocent until proven guilty EXCEPT, where 'going equipped' is concerned when you then have to prove your innocence.

If you are caught outside of that proverbial bank with a bunch of keys or a key gun then you WILL have to prove that you had a valid and / or innocent reason for being there.

The problem with key guns is that they only work on locks that use standard pins and springs. That's why most law enforcement agencies don't use them on raids and prefer the ram the door.

Actually Dat, there are lots of exceptions. I was attacked by a guy, I took appropiate measures. Because I wasn't injured and the guy was, I was considered guilty of assault unless I could prove my innocence. ( ie I would have to prove he threw the first punch otherwise I was automatically considered guilty )