talkmagic.co.uk

In case you're wondering whats going on, refer to this recent forum page - http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/sutra64157.php#64157 Because of technical difficualty, the video quality came out atrostious. I don't recommend watching it more than size 480.

http://media.putfile.com/Trailer3453

PS Don't take the opening literally - Its just to sound cool.

ok.. first of all the actual editing of the clip was well done..cant fault you for that.. BUT using editing to make things look magical is a bit of a no-no really (ie the front and back palm bit using the zooming in to cover the cut was clever but it still reeks of camera trickery) and the cards falling up bit just looked bad. As to the actual content i didnt see anything on it that makes you a look like a "master". The levitating card just looks like its on a thread the whole idea of a floating card means it should look like its floating with soft gentle movements whereas on your demo you can actually see it bounce on the thread at some points. Your pass was quite frankly terrible. what was the sudden jerky movement all about? same again the whole idea of a pass is for it to look like theres nothing going on but yours looks like theres DEFINATELY something happening. the hotshot cut looked ok. the "flourishy stuff" looked kinda like you were afraid you were going to drop the packets, ask Stevebo for some advice on this he might be able to help. what was the setting fire to a corner of the card in the dark all about??? didnt get the meaning of that at all to be honest. and just so you know that "Coming" only has one M in it.

Now i know it sounds harsh but as i said before do you REALLY think your good enough to actually teach people or are you just out to make a quick buck?

I'm affriad i'll have to second many of Mog's points.

Clearly you have a very diverse abillity and can do alot of different slights and flourishes, and i have alot of respect for that. But as Mog stated, refering to your abilities as having "Mastered" the moves, i dont think is quite true.

The editing wasnt too bad, and i can see what you were getting at, however I'm not a fan of the Star Wars and Halo 2 sound samples ... taking on LucasFilms and Microsoft in an infringment of Copyright battle would not be a good idea, even if you had a ligh sabre they would trounce you I would also consider spending more time on the sound editing, the sound samples and voiceover cut in and out and you can easily hear the backkground Hiss, with a little editing you could clean those samples right up.

As for the video quality, i understand you are working on a budget, and this is why you will be able to retail your DVD at a lesser price ... but the quality of the video, and I'm not talking about resolution, is pretty poor. The lighting needs to be thought about a little more, and the backdrop and environment, your video reminds me of the Early Brian Tudor and Sankey stuff from the early 90's. ... spend some time working on that lighting, making it look real nice so you get a good contrast and detail on the cards. Make sure the surrounding environment is clean and empty, so you have lots of distractions.. whilst i appreciate that alot of tutoring videos were shot in locations with distrations, i.e. warehouses and back alley's ... this was done for artistic effect, and its quite different from some matey's living room.

I appreciate your attemps Bladmaster i really do, educating people with a genuin eagerness to learn magic is a great thing, i just think you are quite in the position to do this yet.

Please dont take offence from any of the comments, we are trying to be constructive.

Rob

Well... hopefully our comments are HELPING, and not being taken as knockbacks.

I say that before my comments, because I'm afraid mine aren't all positive either... a lot of what I have to say is already covered by Mog and SirRawlins...

1. Barbecue logic This is a coin I phrased a while back, and it basically describes the man who has never cooked in his life who goes to the store in summer and buys a barbecue. He chucks on sausages, meat and peppers, and turns it all to charcoal. But people eat it nonetheless.
What I am saying is, just because you have all the tools it won't make you an instant overnight professional.
What you've produced is impressive from a point of view that it showcases some of your moves and sleights—which are OK—but the editing, soundtrack and sound effects (which sound like stock iMovie material) are dreadful...

2. Editing Your editing is fine, but there is no rhythm. For a showreel (which is what I assume the purpose of this is) you may be wise to choreograph the edits/cuts to the soundtrack. Keep it flowing.
I have to say, I watched it WITHOUT the soundtrack first (this is a good way to see how your final movie flows—if it looks boring without sound, then it needs re-visiting). Without the soundtrack, I almost nodded off after 30 seconds.
Keep the cuts fast, pace them to the soundtrack. This keeps interest.
Perhaps don't be so lengthy with each shot... inject a little bit here and there. Give people a glimpse, not the whole 9 yards.
Personally, the fast snippet right at the end is the best part.

3. Setting the scene I like the fact you've used a white backdrop, and contrasted it with several other settings in darker scenes. But the lighting is awful. Your camera angles are also very 'standard'. If you've got a tripod, some basic portable lamps and a room which can be darkened, you have an instant 'mood' setter.
Light is very important. The more, the better. Low light conditions can cause graininess in the final movie. But, when using cards, conversely, too MUCH light can cause white-outs and unwanted reflections...
For instance, in your own movie, the deck of cards gets a white-out, and there are horrible light spots on the walnut-style table.
Plot the scene: the position of the camera, lighting, actor's position. It's all so important. Photography is an artform in itself.
Have a read: http://library.thinkquest.org/29285/filmmaking/st4.html

4. Choosing material Film as much as you can. Don't just film a scene once... multiple angles edited together give the impression of lots of active cameras, and splicing this together can add excitement to the scene, especially magic... where showing multiple angles is a bonus anyway.
Expect to keep barely any of the shot material. After all, in the movies, what goes on the cutting room floor costs £££'sssss in wasteage, and there's so much that you never get to see.
It's your judgement of quality and what to keep in/throw out which will give your movie making the edge.

5. Floating on camera This is my own opinion (as is everything else on this page) but if you are going to film 'floating' of any kind, either do it proficiently or simply don't do it at all.
As mentioned, it is totally obvious even to a layman that your playing card is floating on a bit of thread. It's a terrible display... and that's not meant to sound nasty.
The card spin is OK... I would recommend cutting out everything (the original float, and the initial spin of the card) and just cut to a couple of seconds of the spin.

6. Sleights Generally, your sleights are good. However, the prism cut and the pass are notably bad. Lots of practice needed. The spins are great, and your fans are good too.
Again, camera angles and not showing the whole moves in one shot would add pace.

Overall, I would say that you are getting there, but before you get all wizzy with the toys in the editing suite, get the footage right.

You genuinely seem to have a talent for the magic, and also the video, but you just need to pace it all up a little and give the audience enough to leave them wanting more more more!!!

Well done, though

Ok you guys sure have quite a few opinions and mog - you have been on my back since last week (I know that will get a remark). But you seem to be missing some things I already stated. First and foremost, this video wasn't designed to be perfect. I made it in just a few hours. As for the lighting and other effects, you can expect much higher quality on the DVDs. This "trailer" was just for show. And didn't I already mention that it exported badly and the quality was scratched.

Now about the opening statement. I DONT THINK I"M A MASTER. I simply played that out to make it sound powerful, like with the whole spooky music bit. Remember this aren't designed to teach professionals. Their for the ameuturs and mid way standard magicians. I think your all blowing this out of proportion.

And about bringing up the point on using Star Wars music. Give me a break. Do you really believe that I would use it in my disks.

Do I have to say it again. I am not a pro. I'm an Intermidiate in hope of teaching what I already know to inspiring begginer magicians.

But all together. Thanks for the constructive criticism. But to mog - oh forget it.

Hi, I enjoyed your clip as that - a video clip. If I were you, I would wait a couple of years and carry on mastering (no pun intended) your art before trying to go done the dvd road - there is lots of pretty good stuff on there. If you really want your dvds to sell well, you need your flourishes and sleights to be excellent - not just good. You appear to have a really solid base - spend some more time practising and getting them perfect - or as near perfect - as you can before thinking about producing dvds or other commercial footage.
I won't comment on the video editing - to be honest, I thought it looked pretty good.

Finally - don't get worked up about negative (constructive) criticism - I won't go as far as to call it childish to allow such things to get to you - none of us like being criticized, but you need to realise that he is right - although his choice of wording was perhaps a bit agressive. Remember that some of the guys on here are extremely talented - indeed professional magicians - although mog could be perceived as being harsh - all of his comments DID have a basis of reality - and it is prerrogative to do so - take a look at some of the other clips in here - some of the guys look awesome - you are well on the way to becoming awesome - but not quite there on some of your material.

If you are out to make a quick buck, then go ahead and produce right now - frankly there are a lot of rubbish magic dvds floating around as everyone "jumps on the bandwagon". If, on the other hand, you would like to establish yourself in the magic scene as a top teacher such as Daryl or Sankey - then my advise is to be patient and keep practising - the last thing you want to do - is to get a reputation as an average magician producing poor material in the hope of making a quick buck - you will find it very hard to shake that reputation once you have it.

Whatever you decide to do - good luck - I for one will be watching with interest. I wish I had had your skill when I was your age.
Gopes

I apprecieate your reply. And I do realize that what I'm going far is a bit out in the open. However what I've been planning for for half a year should not be plainly shut down. I will continue and produce my DVDs but because of some re-thoughts involved, I won't open my eBay store yet. I will simply make some copies and sell them out to people as a lone distributor durring childrens parties and other small performances. I love to teach and share knowlegde, but perhaps I moved to fast. I think I'll enjoy personally seeing their reactions to the disks than here their responses on eMails.

Mog - Maybe you could post a video like this performing your skills.

I think your heart is in the right place, Blade - and this kind of thing shows a strong dedication to magic and a true desire to progress the art. Two things that should be applauded.

Video editing and quality is something that can easily be fixed with upgrades in equipment. Also, since this file was compressed for the web, the quality will definitely be higher without file size constraints. Still, you might want to look into production quality bumps. If you'd like some help with that (as well as some design input) hit me up in a PM. I'd be glad to help in any way.

I do think you need to work on accepting criticism. I know it's hard for us to take at times, but it's a necessary evil. While you've held your head high in certain situations, it seems you have a bone of contention when it comes to Mog.

I can't speak for prior situations, but I didn't see any problems with the comments Mog made. I haven't had much personal contact with him, but from what I've seen, Mog is very straightforward and doesn't sugarcoat his responses - things you NEED to experience if you are thinking about marketing and selling material. In this facility, Mog is not only your peer - he's your potential audience.

Something else I've seen from Mog is a true dedication and love for magic. I understand you're probably trying to be funny, but the comment about Mog posting a video of his skills is hardly necessary. I didn't see a personal attack in his comments - but I saw it in yours. He isn't attacking you, he's offering his help - which is really what you're looking for. You really can't post something and ask for feedback, and then cry foul when someone gives it.

As for my own comments - one thing I would recommend, in addition to honing your technique, is to work on presentations and originality. The effects you are showing are commonly found elsewhere. If you want to stand out, you have to do more than just show people the skills you've acquired. Take a look at other DVD's on the market. The ones that sell well are offering variations, new thoughts and concepts. Don't take this too personally, but I don't see anything in this video that sets you apart from the pack. Work on building the foundations as you've been doing. Learn how to do it cold - then learn how to make it your own. Once you've done that, you'll have a hit on your hands.

I think you should release your videos. No better way to judge success than by going out and doing it.

Blade Master wrote:Mog - Maybe you could post a video like this performing your skills.

I agree with Demitri, just because you do not like Mog, doesn't mean that you can attack him. If you weren't so full of youself, you would have looked at some of Mog's Magic in the File Sharing section.

Everyone here is trying to offer help, but if you just snap back at them with cheeky comments you won't get any help from anyone

I'm not saying anything about about the video here, but wouldn't you rather buy a dvd made by a professional? I know I would. When you pay for a dvd on magic you want to know you're being taught by the best, with years of experience etc. even if it makes no difference to the learning on the material. It's just one of those things...

I don't want to say anything about this video though, you probably know what was good and bad about it now.

If you continue to produce the DVD i would be interested to see how things go, and good luck to you.

However, i am not keen on the idea of selling them After Show ... you cant just tearn up and do a session of people and then give out DVD's that give away all your secrets, it just ruins the mystery of magic for the spectators and makes the job alot less enjoyable for the performers.

If you are presesnting a show and some of the audience have a genuin urge to go and learn magic then they will make the efforts to research it themselves.

I agree with Dimitri when he says your heart is in the right place, spreading and growing the art of magic is somthing that we all enjoy doing, but cheap, easy eccess exposure isnt really the way to do this. As you can appreciate from studying this art, nothing can be rushed everything takes time, effort and commitment to perfect, you cant just slap this thing together ... dont launch anything untill you are completely ready too.

Rob

Unfortunately the vid won't run for me so I can't comment on the content and standard of what you've done however, you did post it and were expecting responses so don't be too disheartened if what you get isn't what you wanted.

Bear in mind that, despite any ideas to the contrary, all the folks at TM are on your side and on the side of good magic so anything said is intended to be helpful to you (and others considering doing something similar) no matter how harsh or otherwise the comments may seem. To be very blunt, if you think some of the TM comments are inappropriate than just wait and see what sort of comments you could get from Joe Public who will be very untactful and unfriendly if they aren't happy - even if you give them the DVD as a freebie. You may not fully appreciate the responses here but how much worse it would be if we all said , Well done', 'Magnificent vid', 'First Class stuff' etc but were actually being less than truthful just to be nice?

since you expect me to reply then i will. you claim ive been on your back since last week and on reflection maybe i have BUT ask yourself why? you claim that you are going to produce dvds to teach people..now i have a problem with this for a couple of reasons.
1) why do you think your good enough to teach? to be honest i dont think you are good enough to teach anyone(obviously i can only go by what i saw on your video) and this in turn does NOTHING to help the art of magic it damages it more than you know.. for example.. you might try and teach someone to do an elmsley count.. now unless you are perfect in execution of the count then whoever buys one of your dvds will end up with the same bad habits that you have. and in turn when they try and teah someone to do it then they will pick up the same bad habits that they were taught and it goes on with each generation getting slightly worse.

2) you say that you will only teach effects that you have invented..just curious but how many effect have you invented?

3) to be a good teacher requires a good understanding of the subject and since you posted "I was considering to buy this trick but I'm still a relativly ametuer magician. I don't think I could handle a "4" yet. I'd be going in over my head" in one of your early posts i dont think you actually have a good understanding..maybe you will in the future but for now you dont.

i could go on but i dont think its neccesary. if you read what everyone else said in this thread and actually digest it then you will see that noone thinks you should be trying to sell teaching dvds. now seriously ask yourself.. do you really think your good enough to teach OR ar you just another kid who is out to make a quick buck from damaging magic further?

Just to point out that i taught Laugar kungfu for a couple of years but then i stopped because in my opinion i wasnt good enough to teach.. dont get me wrong i trained almost every day for roughly 8 years before i started teaching but i felt i still couldnt pass on what id learned because i didnt know enough.. i could do all the moves flawlessly (won competitions for it) but thats not the be all and end all of it.. its KNOWING why moves re done.. how to misdirect your opponent.. why its better to use an open palm strike instead of a punch to the breastbone. Now it was hard for me to stop teaching because i enjoyed it.. but i wasnt helping anyone since they were getting incomplete knowledge which is why i feel strongly about you teaching magic because its exactly the same thing.. now i also know that what i say wont make a blind bit of difference because your 15 year old ego wont allow it but thats understandable we were all like that at one time but if you really care about magic then you will wait until you understand what your doing before trying to teach.

as for me putting videos of me performing if you look in the filesharing section and you can find plenty. now chances are you can look at them and think "wow he sucks" but so what im not the one trying to make money out of it so it doesnt matter to me.

the_mog wrote:as for me putting videos of me performing if you look in the filesharing section and you can find plenty. now chances are you can look at them and think "wow he sucks" but so what im not the one trying to make money out of it so it doesnt matter to me.

You do not suck

I think that what has been posted has been posted and what has been heard has been heard. We all have our own thoughts and we all have the ability to listen to another persons ideas. So let me finish with a few phrases of wisdom before I leave this page.

1) Assumptions can kill
2) Gossip can destroy
3) Jealousy is a criminal
4) Things done out of greed for money have lost ends
5) False hope is self destruction

Peace to all and thanks for the advice. I'll leave up my video so others can watch it for fun. And no hard feelings.