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I've only been back in to magic a short time now, but can remeber back to when i used to pefrom some three or four years ago. Back then, i liked to be known as "magic" and wanted people to believe i had special powers. Now it is different and i like to impress people with my skill and descion making abilities rather than mystical powers.
For instance, when do a trick like ambitious card, i do lots of false misdirection, meaning that i am not actually doing anything. Then when it comes to showing the top card, the spectators naturally assume that i have done something with my hands that they did not quite see. Rather than just waving my had or blowing on the deck. (if i was to blow on the deck or wave my hand i would do it in an unorthidox way. Again, making it seem like there was some dodgy moves going on.
I don't like making out that i am actually magic, and to be honest, dislike calling myself a magican.
I'm interested in other peoples views on this and how they like to be thought of.
So how do you present your "magic"? Do you like people to think you as skilled and practiced, or as plain and simple "magic".

Sorry if this is in the wrong section.

Cheers

Ben

Welcome to TM!

"Plain and simple magic?" A contradiction in terms!

I am the complete opposite to you when it comes to my performing attitude, and would rather it be a magical experience.

In my opinion, what is so magic about sleight of hand? Sleights were never meant to be known as the method; sleights are supposed to be SECRET methods to achieve the IMPOSSIBLE, not to DEMYSTIFY the impossible.

The way I see it, magic is supposed to be an escape from everyday life, it's supposed to offer that wonderment that is so lacking from most people's lives. While finger-flicking may be visually impressive, it does not appeal to the mind, it cannot give that sense of bewilderment - everything you do can be put down to secret moves. In my opinion, such things demystify magic, and no matter how much people marvel at your honed ability, they probably want to be mystified even more.

I don't want people to think I have magical powers and that I'm so great; all that I want to do is provide them with an inexplicable, entertaining performance, and let them think about how it was done - if they want to.

Sorry if this seems as if I'm having a go at you, I'm not, I just feel quite strongly about it. I'm sure audience enjoy your magic, but I just prefer the more magical side of things.

Again, welcome to TM!

it's an interesting question. i posed a similar one a while ago about the difference between sleight of hand and magic. and while some people make an ACR look like magic, others make it seem like sleight of hand.
so where does it stop? magician? or skillfull with your hands?
i supose it depends what you want people to think of you. since that's what magic is, all about how you make the spectator feel. so if you want them to think you're good at slieght of hand then play it that way. it's just a personal choice!

try reading through this
http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic8117.php&highlight=

i think you might like it.

oh, and welcome to talkmagic! post us an intro

BTW, just wanted to expand on my comments - while I know that there are people who do well with this finger-flicking magic, I guess it all comes down to what your audience wants to see and how entertaining you are, as there are very entertaining performers who perform with similar attitudes to you.

That's all that really matters, I suppose, how entertaining and enjoyable they are.

I've met some people who add there own twists to tricks... but not in good way. It's likw their acting more than doing tricks.

Let's face it, most people do know that magic is based on sleight of hand or use of special props or some clever secret. I would say it's very hard to find someone (not a 4 year old) who would believe that ACR is pure magic in the literal sense. So the question should probably be whether you want your routines to look like magic or give an impression that you are simply a skilled manipulator. Personally, I do not really care. I just want them to look impossible. If a trick freaks people out and they go "how on earth did you do it?" then I am satisfied. That's exactly what I stive for.

Well said el Topo!

Personally I'd think a style that incorporates both would probably be my ideal.

If you can make people think that what your doing is due to your great skills and then blow them away with an effect they just can't logically explain, then they really don't know what's hit them.

But really it's whatever works for you...

I totally disagree Topo. Magic is not based on sleight of hand, or any of those things that you said, magic is based on the ability to do the impossible.

To a layman, anybody can learn skills and sleight of hand, but not everyone is magic. If you went up to somebody and said to them, "I'm going to show you that I can make a card jump from the middle of the deck to the top of the deck", and after you had shown them, they were going "Wow! Thats cool! How did you do that?" and then you told them that you had done it by skills that you had developed? It makes the trick seem less cool.

I've met some people who add there own twists to tricks... but not in good way. It's likw their acting more than doing tricks.

Some of the best tricks that I know rely on acting, because if I didn't then the trick would be absolutely rubbish. Watch Daryl do magic, quite a lot of it is very, very simple stuff, but the tricks are absolutely amazing and get the best reactions!

I have recent;y created an effect where if you didn't really act, then the trick wouldn't be that great.

I don't want people to believe I have special powers or something*.
I think nobody older than 12 years would believe that anyway...
But I want the people I do tricks for to feel relaxed and have a good time. Like they are just watching a 'short play' with an amazing end.

*When I tell them of which card they're thinking I make an exception, if they ask me how I did it, I just tell them it came through years of practice and that it's not an oridnary trick. It somehow just adds to the effect of the trick...

Its strange... since i originally started this thread my views have changed. I performed coin in soda can today for a woman who had just missed her train at the station. She was in no real rush so i asked her if i could borrow a 10p. I then started to act, and made it look like i was looking for something, trying to find the weak spot and made it look like i was heating the can. I proceeded with the trick and got a really good reaction from her husbund and two teenage daughters. I think thanks to the way i acted and the petter of the trick, it made it seem as if it was almost real magic. To her anyway. people who don't know you see you as the magician and don't know if you have powers or not. Now i doubt that she thinks I am magic, but she may well believe what she saw was magic.
This and a few other effects have made me realise that if you can get someone to believe it is magic, it is more effective to them. Sure, it might not be the best bet trying to persuade someone logically minded that it is magic, but that is when you perform wih fast hands and sleights that they can't catch.

I now think it all depends on the situation and the spectators. If they are going to believe it - let them.

Ramble over

Ben

If you want to be a magician then give them magic, if you want to show how skillful your hands are, take up juggling.

ace of kev wrote:I totally disagree Topo. Magic is not based on sleight of hand, or any of those things that you said, magic is based on the ability to do the impossible.

First, a small correction: it's not possible to do the impossible. If you do it, it already means it's possible. So I'd write "magic is based on the ability to do what seems to be impossible."

And how do you excatly do what looks impossible? Right, you execute a sleight or use a gimmick or whatever is required for the trick. Do you in fact believe that the majority of people in the present western society do not know it and think that magicians perform their routines by using some supernatural powers?

Probably you can trick somebody into believing you can read his/her mind by performing some clever mentalist routine, especially if you combine it with genuine psycological demonstrations (something along the lines of what Derren Brown does). But card tricks? C'mon!

To a layman, anybody can learn skills and sleight of hand, but not everyone is magic.

I do not know about your family, friends, collegues, etc, but I am yet to meet somebody who does not know that magic and illusion are all about skill and secrets.

Of course the spectator knows that what you're doing isn't really magic (is it?). However, when you show them some magic you are asking them to suspend their disbelief and try to imagine that there is real magic going on. It doesn't matter that they know it's not possible...

Kati

That's what I meant by "looking like magic."

Our job isn't to get people to believe in magic - our job is to get people to experience magic. This involves more than sleight of hand or gimmicks - it includes what we say, how we say it, what we project etc.
When we perform we are creating a different reality - putting the spectators into a trance and letting them enter another world.
When I perform I don't see it as trying to get the spectators to believe I'm accomplishing certain things by magic (ie. magic is the method - but I'm actually using trickery). What I set out to do is to get the spectators to experience real magic - using whatever method works best. The method is irrelavant. I'm manipulating their reality - and in so doing I'm creating magic.

I did a fork bend for a physics professor (I didn't know that's what he was - or I probably would've been a bit more nervous). He said something like "I know that's not supposed to be possible - but I'm seeing it with my own eyes. I feel like a child again!". That's what I'm talking about... and that's how I would like my magic to be interpreted.