talkmagic.co.uk

Having viewed various post on here criticising Blaine, Angel and so on I just have a couple of opinons on magicians in general and wonder what you guys think.
With regards to David Blane I think the vast majority of people on this site and around the world, when they first saw him perform were amazed and few had any idea how he was doing any of his tricks. His unique personality and performing in the street revolutionised magic unlike any magician since Houdini. of course we can all criticise him now we know how various of his tricks are done but no-one here can say they have never "cheated" in performance, whether it be with a trick deck or stacked deck, we are in sense cheating the same way Blaine and Angel do with the camera.
Of course you can criticise magicians when you are in the know, but if you were an ordinary spectator with no knowledge of magic, as many of us know having performed, the reaction of the spectator is what magic is all about, and this is the same whether watching it at home or on the street. Magic is about the spectator rather than the magician, I just think we should respect whtat each of these magicians is doing and how each of them has revolutionised magic rather than criticise their methods or techniques in performance.

Hi Joli.

There are many post regarding Blaine here on TM and some are complimentary and recognise his contribution whilst others don't. It's down to personal preference and we're all entitled to an opinion.

Many magicians, even experienced ones credit Blaine with bringing magic back into the public view, even whilst not necessarily liking him too much for a variety of reasons.

Personally, Blaine held my attention for a while until he moved away from magic towards his stunts. This tends be be what has put magicians off him, less so than for finding out that few, if any of the tricks that he performs are his own creations. You either like his presentation style or you don't and this also equally counts for laymen, whether you think that it's unique or not.

Personally, I think that there are others that have done much more for magic since Houdini.

You're right in that we all cheat. That's the essence of magic. The secret is to do it without others seeing you do it. Magic is equally about the magician and the specator. Without both it's rather pointless and I think that most do in fact respect Blaine if for different reasons.

hey joli! first things first its usually good courtasy to use your first post in the introductions so people can get to know you.

secondly i dont really agree "camera magic" and "slieght of hand" magic are totally different. in camera magic you are hiding different things you are doing where in slieght of hand you can be more open. ok, maybe that made no sense let me some it up: tricks you do on the camera u cant perform infront of people thus not having the same effect! anyone with money can perform camera magic and make countless videos showing how great they are it takes great skill and practise to become a magician where you can perform infront and upfront to people!

An old thread but I have never gave my half pennies worth on my thoughts on Blaine so simply..

Blaine has to be credited for bringing magic into the Mainstream. In the 90's magic had all but died. If it wasnt for David Blaine I certainly wouldnt have been the least bit interestred in magic. I was fascinated as a child but my recollection during the 90's of magic was some guy sawing a girl in half and simple cup and ball routines, and effects which seem so outdated I just couldn't spark an interest in these tings. If a magic show were on TV I certainly wouldnt put myself out to watch it.

Street Magic absolutely was the one show that made my jaw hit the floor, made me stand up and talk an interest, even if it was to be a fair few years later before I took it upon myself to study the art.

Howeve, what now gripes me is.. you see, the likes of many magicians who actually CREATE effects. The likes of Blaine will take these effects and put them ob video in his latest show and people assume its his own creation!! David Blaine is now very wealthy. Surely as wealthy as he is he should be investing into new effects, his own creaetions. He surely now has enough time on his hands!!

Instead, he does the same tricks show in show out.. the card is in the pocket, now its on the window, now its in the basket ball, now its tatooed on my chest.. big F'in deal!! He is not a creator of magic, he is a fairly good magician who now has sold out to meaningless stunts to keep himself in the public eye so people dont find out he doesnt actually have anything new!!

Credit where credits due.. but if he does have a creative side, he is certainly not doing enough to show it.

He DID a great thing for magic.. but he has done nothing for magic since!!

personally i think he's tried to follow the Houdini path too closely and not given it the same pazzazz...

Houdini started off as a traditional magician, but was advised to give it up...

Then he did pure escapes and similar effects instead...

kinda the same with Blaine i think...but the difference is, i dont think the stuff he does now is a shocking/powerful as Houdini's was in his time...

i wouldnt be surprised in a year or two's time he started "outing" a few fake spiritualists or something similar...that might make for a more interesting show actually...

Yeah, Blainey is great for magic. Anyone who performs magic for profit should thank him for making it 'trendy' and 'in vogue' again.

His tricks are kewl too, but they are all pretty much gimmicked. No harm in that, most magicians tricks are gimmicked aside from sleights.

I do not believe that a trick deck is "cheating." Especially if it is your own trick. A long time ago I created my own trick deck. It was a specially designed deck used to change the color of the deck from blue to red (or visversa). Is this cheating that I modify my own cards. No.

As for your quick comment shown below.

we are in sense cheating the same way Blaine and Angel do with the camera.

Some of the TalkMagic users know that I am HEAVILY against these claims. And I challenge anyone to prove to me with Real Evidence that any trick that the two perform is done with a camera trick. Try me. PM me with a claim so I can shoot you down.

To all of thouse people who critisize David Blane.... SHAME ON YOU!!!!





With out him, there wouldn't be any street magic parodies!

Barnabas wrote:Some of the TalkMagic users know that I am HEAVILY against these claims. And I challenge anyone to prove to me with Real Evidence that any trick that the two perform is done with a camera trick. Try me. PM me with a claim so I can shoot you down.

Blaine used camera editing to do his tv live levitation, unless you actually believe he levitated 3 feet off the ground

Cris Angel.. Im suss of him.. Im sure when he walked through a shop window it was camera editing.. i could be wrong there but Ive heard nothing to the contrary.

With Angel, i am never really impressed. I think that many of the audience are stooges, and really bad actors at that. I know sometimes magic can silence a spectator, but a lot of the specs in his show look genuinely bored.. some reactions are mistimed which is why I think a lot of camera editing is involved.. its like they are waiting to be prompted to gasp!!

mccabe24 wrote:To all of thouse people who critisize David Blane.... SHAME ON YOU!!!!

With out him, there wouldn't be any street magic parodies!

I think the best one has to be Lee Francis on Bo Selecta'

Mind you, Blaine himself on GMTV is THE parody, vis: http://youtube.com/watch?v=h28DFZwh0DQ

To I.D.

If you have a true desire to know the truth then PM me (lets not dicuss it on this thread). I will take on any and all challenges you may think off and I can prove to you that they are not camera tricks. I understand 90% of all Chris Angel's material. But don't expect for me to right out reveal them.

I agree that David Blaine (and to a much lesser extent, Criss Angel), did revive the public's interest in magic. I have never been impressed with either of them but I am not sure if it that the effects are not that amazing to me or that I find their on camera personalities so annoying. Neither seem like people I would like to hang around with. On the other hand, there are well-known magicians with whom I have spent some time in the past (late 80's) who are people who I enjoyed spending time with, whether discussing magic or just walking the streets of Boston after Magicale.

As for their originality, many performers (in all arts) are just performers. Most actors don't write the plays, TV shows or movies in which they act. There are many famous vocalists (Sinatra for one) who do not write their own songs. I have never purchased effects market by Blaine or Angel (though I learned recently that Paul Harris creates effects for Blaine so I may consider it) but since they are the ones who are famous, it doesn't hurt if they put their names to the product, as long as proper credit is given somewhere. In the music business it is customary list the original composer(s) of a song you cover, and movies will state that they were based on a novel and give the title of the novel and the author's name.

I do believe that Blaine and Angel use camera tricks and/or clever editing, not for as many effects as one would think. My bigest problem with them is that they claim or imply) that they are performing live in front of real spectators (not stooges) and that is what bothers me and what I believe hurts the art of magic.

Sorry for the long post, this is a sore subject for me, one for which I have much ambivilance.

I dont need to find out the truth, no one into magic can honestly say that David blaine performed the final ''balducci'' with no wires, cranes and stooges who put on the same colour jackets as the spectators. Blaine DID use a camera in this instance, you know how I know>> because magic ISNT real!!

Blaine and Angel do use camera tricks, nobody who knows a thing or two about magic should seriously argue with that because its obvious. Its fine, thats the way they do it. There is a saying '' The end result justifies any means used to get there '' So miliions of laypeople watching these show are convinced they posses such powers. We as magicians know better and know they use camera tricks in a lot of their stunts. Its obvious to spot a stooge imo aswell as they dont react like you would expect fromsomeone who has witnessed such things for real !!

The problem with camera tricks, in any manner, is that they break the spell that magic casts upon an audience. In a Spielberg movie, of course dinosaurs are real. In a Superman film, of course a man can fly. To allow a magician to use effects on camera, to allow them to do ANYTHING other than real magic that just happens to be filmed, that breaks the basic premise of magic, which is the inability to discern the methods by which a trick is performed.

If the magic community allows a performer on TV to make that answer always, unequivocally "camera tricks," then they take the magic away from magic.

My opinion, at least.

GTKarber wrote:to allow them to do ANYTHING other than real magic that just happens to be filmed, that breaks the basic premise of magic, which is the inability to discern the methods by which a trick is performed.

I find it ironic that it is EXACT inability to figure the method, instantly leads to the "camera trick" explanations. This problem usually comes from the fact that people who "know a thing or two" about magic, really don't know as much as they boast...