talkmagic.co.uk

Here's an explanation of the card spin flourish http://media.putfile.com/card-spin-explanation
hope you like it
TIPS: if you cant balance the card lick you finger tips and wipe them so they have grip and lift your thumb when you spin it

Don't think you should be posting tutorials of stuff unless it's your own creation and this obviously isn't.

did you pay royalties for posting that vid, i hope you did because posting it in the public domain which is were put file is can get you in a lot of hot water.
luckily you'r not exposing a trick just a flourish all the same though you maybey breaching putfiles rules regarding posting copywright material, keep an eye on your inbox.

magicdiscoman wrote:did you pay royalties for posting that vid, i hope you did because posting it in the public domain which is were put file is can get you in a lot of hot water.
luckily you'r not exposing a trick just a flourish all the same though you maybey breaching putfiles rules regarding posting copywright material, keep an eye on your inbox.

Sorry to harp on about copyright again, but I think you were a little heavy handed with this young man. As far as I can tell the video was created by makokis, and as such he has not breached existing UK or US intellectual property laws. As a result he is therefore not in breach of putfiles terms and conditions.

Makokis, you'll find that many members don't take kindly to this type of exposure, even on a flourish. I understand that you were trying to be helpful, but to avoid the anger of some members and the potential action of some moderators, better to ask first.

yes appologies all round bad wording from me didn't meen to come off as such an oger.

iv'e fallen foul of interlectual copywrite myself once or twice as its a bit of a grey area it was ment as a causionary note not a slap in the face.

Personally I see no problem with makokis posting this video as it is not exposing anything that you couldn't work out for yourself. If this were the case we should get rid of the filesharing forum altogether because I know full well that there are members here who will watch a video clip of an effect over and over again until they deconstruct it and can then "perform" it themselves.

There is no need to remove this video, and there is definately no need to get annoyed about it being posted in the public domain.

No worries on the vid, there's no spoken explanation and it's a flourish rather than revealing a secret sleight or move. Although the spin is shown from different angles and the required position of the fingers are clearly indicated, it could easily be classed as a demo. The spin are rather good and you're to be congratulated - wish I could get more than half a revolution before the card stops or flings itself off to the other side of the room!

Also, when I asked about this in Support and Tips everyone was very helpful and went into it so I see no reason why this can't be left.

Pitto

magicdiscoman wrote:yes appologies all round bad wording from me didn't meen to come off as such an oger.

iv'e fallen foul of interlectual copywrite myself once or twice as its a bit of a grey area it was ment as a causionary note not a slap in the face.

I would never accuse you of being an ogre magicdiscoman. I was simply concerned that the young man in question may be perturbed by the idea of a letter from someones lawyers winging its way in his direction.

Copyright law isn't actually that gray an area, but there is a great deal of misinformation. You also have to factor in the magic communities ethics on top of this, and this is where things get sticky.

To avoid doubt it may be useful if mandrake were to define a clear policy for video posting. Under the current guidance I could post all sorts of things the forum members would find exception with. My world famous explanation of paperclipped for example.

I’m not sure that it’s possible to lay down a clear cut all encompassing policy for this aspect. Anything posted on Putfile or other hosts is beyond the control of, and nothing to do with, TM. If someone posted an exposure vid there and promoted it here, all we could do is to edit the post to remove the link and have a word or two with the person who posted.

The TM File Sharing Area was intended just for members to show others their routines, flourishes, pictures etc. We rely on common sense about what not to post in there but general forum policy is that we don’t permit exposure in any form be it video, text or other method and that seems to cover the File Sharing Area adequately. A flexible approach to all this is usually better otherwise we’d get constant nitpicking over the minutiae of policy statements, very much as we get from time to time with the For Sale and Wanted sections. Mods’ decisions will be final over any postings so if there’s any doubt as to suitability, as suggested above, it would be best to check before posting anything.

Mandrake, I understand and agree with your commentary. My only issue is that the etiquette stickies make no reference to exposure, only to copyright.

Since under these conditions I could post pretty much anything, for the avoidance of doubt, it may be worthwhile explicitly disallowing any form of exposure. Its only a small point, but would draw a fairly thick line in the sand.

It may also have the added benefit of sending a clear message to any secret hungry lurkers.

Either way, i still think it's not right unless the flourish is your own creation. e.g. if you made a flourish video and you used a move that was your own creation, would you like it if someone else learnt it and publically showed it in their own video? I, for one, wouldn't be too happy.

Unless I published the tutorial for the move with permissions for inspirations etc. I wouldn't like it for someone else to use my flourish. People make books and DVDs to teach people flourishes just the same as magic, so I don't think it's fair to say that teaching other people's flourishes is OK and teaching other's sleights is wrong.

Time and effort is needed to create it just as with sleights.

Under http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic3632.php and http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic3632.php we already have:

3) No copyright infringements are allowed, for example, posting details of copyright routines, commercial products etc...

but it would probably be worth reinforcing that in the intro to the File Sharing Area so I’ll add and expand on that bit and woe betide anyone posting inappropriate stuff after that!

stevebo wrote:if you made a flourish video and you used a move that was your own creation, would you like it if someone else learnt it and publically showed it in their own video? I, for one, wouldn't be too happy.

This is the danger of posting stuff in a public area - if someone can figure out what you do and copy it, they will certainly do so. The only sure fire way to avoid this is to not post the flourish/move in the first place.

stevebo wrote:I don't think it's fair to say that teaching other people's flourishes is OK and teaching other's sleights is wrong.

Nobody's actually said this as far as I can see.

The big difference is that, in a demo vid, a properly executed sleight is (or should be) invisble whereas a flourish is, by defnition, very visible. There's always someone out there who will be happy to poach ideas and techniques. It's not a nice world at times.

Mandrake wrote:Under http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic3632.php and http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic3632.php we already have:

3) No copyright infringements are allowed, for example, posting details of copyright routines, commercial products etc...

but it would probably be worth reinforcing that in the intro to the File Sharing Area so I’ll add and expand on that bit and woe betide anyone posting inappropriate stuff after that!

I did read both the etiquette postings, but there is a difference between the protection copyright offers and a clear anti-exposure policy.

Thank you for taking the time to consider my comments. Firm but fair as always, Mandrake.