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which is more worth it :cradle to grave by De'vo or Extreme Generation by Brian Tudor?

please rate:
a) teaching quality
b) quality of contents
c)quantity of contents
d) difficulty of moves
e)overall rating

thanks!

gratel

Its Generation eXtreme BTW - hereafter referred to as GE.

Firstly this isn't an apples for apples comparison, CTG is PURE flourish, GE is flourishy magic. In fact there's more 'magic' in GE than flourishes, aside from the initial 'Show Off' routine - so I'd ask yourself what do you want to learn? Pure flourish or flourishy magic?

Also these are not beginner DVD's - what level are you at?

OK, so even though it's not a fair comparison I'll play along


a) teaching quality

CTG - great, as good as it gets, very very clear, all finger positions fully explained.

GE - Not very good, better than the first attempt Tudor made at the project (Generation X) but not very clear - it's not easy to learn from. He glosses over a lot of detail.



b) quality of contents

CTG - Original moves and concepts, subsequently copied by virtually everyone!

GE - Lots of good stuff, if you can understand the teaching!


c)quantity of contents

CTG - Hmm, only area where De'vo could have done better - could of done with a few more moves.

GE - Lots and lots, more than CTG - but again the teaching detail is lacking.


d) difficulty of moves

CTG - Varies, definately not for the faint hearted, moderate to quite advanced in places.

GE - Relative to CTG - I'd say more difficult.


e)overall rating

CTG is great, it was/is a landmark flourish DVD and should be on every flourishers shelf. Ease of learning is superb.

GE - I don't like Tudor's teaching style, his flourish material is excellent and I like some of his magic effects - but not all of it. I'd say watch the demo vid and ask yourself if you like the effects - but be prepared for lots rewinding.

As a footnote, it's interesting to observe that I see many people making videos with De'vo's moves from CTG - but not as many as moves from GE - I think that speaks volumes for the teaching quality, because Tudor's moves are also great.

Also, consider that Tudor has better pure flourish DVD's and Xtreme Beginners by De'vo is great for,err.... a beginner.

Again depends what you want to learn and your current level of skill?

Totally agree with you MightyNubbin. Also, only get Generation Extreme if you can put up with Tudor saying the word "essentially" every few seconds.

stevebo wrote:Totally agree with you MightyNubbin. Also, only get Generation Extreme if you can put up with Tudor saying the word "essentially" every few seconds.

ba zing!

Tudor has the skills to pay the bills but he really does come across as an arrogant individual sometimes.

I've also heard this about him first hand.

TheMightyNubbin wrote:Its Generation eXtreme BTW - hereafter referred to as GE.

Firstly this isn't an apples for apples comparison, CTG is PURE flourish, GE is flourishy magic. In fact there's more 'magic' in GE than flourishes, aside from the initial 'Show Off' routine - so I'd ask yourself what do you want to learn? Pure flourish or flourishy magic?

Also these are not beginner DVD's - what level are you at?

OK, so even though it's not a fair comparison I'll play along


a) teaching quality

CTG - great, as good as it gets, very very clear, all finger positions fully explained.

GE - Not very good, better than the first attempt Tudor made at the project (Generation X) but not very clear - it's not easy to learn from. He glosses over a lot of detail.



b) quality of contents

CTG - Original moves and concepts, subsequently copied by virtually everyone!

GE - Lots of good stuff, if you can understand the teaching!


c)quantity of contents

CTG - Hmm, only area where De'vo could have done better - could of done with a few more moves.

GE - Lots and lots, more than CTG - but again the teaching detail is lacking.


d) difficulty of moves

CTG - Varies, definately not for the faint hearted, moderate to quite advanced in places.

GE - Relative to CTG - I'd say more difficult.


e)overall rating

CTG is great, it was/is a landmark flourish DVD and should be on every flourishers shelf. Ease of learning is superb.

GE - I don't like Tudor's teaching style, his flourish material is excellent and I like some of his magic effects - but not all of it. I'd say watch the demo vid and ask yourself if you like the effects - but be prepared for lots rewinding.

As a footnote, it's interesting to observe that I see many people making videos with De'vo's moves from CTG - but not as many as moves from GE - I think that speaks volumes for the teaching quality, because Tudor's moves are also great.

Also, consider that Tudor has better pure flourish DVD's and Xtreme Beginners by De'vo is great for,err.... a beginner.

Again depends what you want to learn and your current level of skill?

my current level of skill....................I've bought XB, and have basically got the moves down well, my fans are ok, and i do all my moves at relatively good speed.

also watched the system and can do the flourishes well enough.

I'm confident i can learn Cradle to Grave well, I'm worried becuase there are not as many moves as in Extreme Generation. Also, I'm not a pure XCMist; i want to use both xcm/floutrishes with magic to spice up my routine, which is why im also interested in EX GEN.

So, what do you think i should get now?

thanks for the help, themightynubbin

If u can do all the System stuff, and actually you could learn it (coz the learning experience in this title is not the best) you could go for CTG, Generation eXtreme Routines are kinda hard...

Anyway the TheMightyNubbin´s review says it all.

Hmmm, I don't know what else to add really - if you can do everything well from XB and the System you'd be one of the best flourishers out there - have you really mastered everything on them?

If you have everything down perfect and managed to learn everything from the system (which isnt the easiest DVD to learn from) and want to do flourishy magic then go for GE. BTW - do you like the magic routines on GE from the demos?

But be prepared for lots of rewinding and head scratching. Note though that you'll need to be proficient with card sleights for the magic elements - this is in no way a beginner DVD for card magic.

The absolute best thing for you do is find a buddy who can show you both of them.

TheMightyNubbin wrote:Hmmm, I don't know what else to add really - if you can do everything well from XB and the System you'd be one of the best flourishers out there - have you really mastered everything on them?

If you have everything down perfect and managed to learn everything from the system (which isnt the easiest DVD to learn from) and want to do flourishy magic then go for GE. BTW - do you like the magic routines on GE from the demos?

But be prepared for lots of rewinding and head scratching. Note though that you'll need to be proficient with card sleights for the magic elements - this is in no way a beginner DVD for card magic.

The absolute best thing for you do is find a buddy who can show you both of them.

i've learned the flourishes well enough: meaning I know how to do them, i can do them smoothly, and most of them i do them quite fast. Didn't say i was perfect. (oh yeah, i haven't learn rev.Erdnase cut yet.my bad)

yes, i did enjoy the magic routines on the demo.I would want to learn them, except im worried theat people might not understand what is happening.

Yep Revolution erdnase is hard as nails - I know lots of people that can't do that well yet have mastered EVERYTHING else on the System, including Madonna 3 and TCTCSA.

As I said earlier I like *some* of Tudor's magic - I like Hypnotic (his ACR) and Follow the Queen. But he performs stuff too fast in my opinion. I can't see most lay people appreciating effects at that speed.

I think if you're going to do pure display of skill - just do XCM.

Flourishes added *appropriately* to magic effects can enhance them, but Tudor is just a speed freak - speed at the cost of everything else.

Remember you can always slow down his routines - or if you're still not sure you want to drop $50 on GE consider Lee Ashers material or Dan and Dave's notes for more flourishy visual magic.

BTW - Dan and Dave just announced their first magic DVD - to be released this autumn.

just checked the cradle to grave dvd on ellusionist, apparently they have bonuses included. What is it?

The bonus is the access to the Forum... Be carefull if you buy it at ellusionist you won't get that. To get the password to the forum you will need to buy it directly from SuperHandz.com.

But mainly as it was said here, you get a Routine "Cradle To Grave"
and a couple of moves.

It's a great title but if you are looking to learn lots of moves... this is not the one you want.

NEJ

I have both CTG and XB and i think the teaching style is pretty good, but then it sorta gets annoying cause they repeat alot. ALOT. but i guess that is a good thing and de'vo goes slowly through each part. and if you really want to do CTG and dont have it yet and if you have some other XCM dvds, start mastering cybil/impossible stack cause CTG is basicily impossible stack with different details

I definately enjoy watching CTG more than Generation eXtreme but GE does have more content. I haven't actually learnt much from GE though because I really don't like Tudor's personality. De'vo's teaching of manipulation is one of the best out there. And yes, there are bonuses on CTG that I will not say...