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I like to perfor mentalism. And my question is when someone comes to you and asks if you were born with the ability to do such things, what should you say. My personal feeling is to go on with the act and explain that we all have these abilities if we just focused harder on them. i know someone like James Randi has differing views. What do you think

I think you should sort out where you're coming from before you start.

I tell people to remember that I it's just me and leave them wondering just how I did what I did. If I get a true believer, I just question them about their beliefs and say as little as possible about what I've just appeared to do. It builds a sense of being listened to, and lets them talk in a way that perhaps others aren't prepared to hear, which calms them down again. Then perhaps I'll finish with something silly like pulling a D'Lite from their ear.

Not a mentalist myself but might suggest watching Messiah by Derren Brown about the ethics of it.

That's a very good point. He keeps reminding us that it's not the people who are prone to believe in stuff that are the problem but the people who exploit that ability for their own gain, whether it's to make a fat pile of cash or even war.

Derren Brown is the man that has got me started in Mentalism.

Can anybody recommened any really good books or DVDs (preferebly DVDs) to get someone started in mentalism?

Traditionally speaking the Mentalist always walks in that grey area between being a pure con-man and the showman. They most certainly are "hustlers" by nature, it's an aspect of how the craft works; we ellude to certian things as being truths, neither endorsing nor denying.

Now, before this day is out you are probably going to hear from a bunch of "experts", most all them having less than 10 years experience in this field and little to no actual experience, offer you their two-cents, which will look hauntingly like what Derren Brown and Ian Rowland say on such things. So please do yourself a favor and actually talk to seasoned mentalists that have been doing this stuff since before the current trends; you don't learn how to be a plumber by asking a carpenter to teach you... if you get my drift.

I do not say this to insult such types, but so you can understand up front that there is a much older and proven course as to how Mentalism is presented and "handled" than what's been brought out in the past few years. What is important isn'nt what all your magic buddies think, but how you percieve yourself and what you do. It is YOU that must have the integrity and moral character; it is YOU that must decide how far you will push the line (and the line must be pushed unless you want to be imcombered by the same restrictions the typical magician faces when it comes to getting work, etc.)

If I were you I'd dive into studying the philosophies offered this industry long before it became a trend; Rober Nelson, Stephan Minch, Richard Webster and Ron Martin being excellent starts and if you can get your hands on them, the works of Herb Dewey. It is through these sources that you will find valuable insights about this side of the magic business. Another great source of current offering is Bob Cassidy; though a skeptic Bob is also a realist when it comes to how the public percieves mentalism and why the key to our success is our ability to create one single illusion; our image in the eye of the laity.

In short, the line that can't be crossed is the one you place in the sand.

Craig Browning wrote:Now, before this day is out you are probably going to hear from a bunch of "experts", most all them having less than 10 years experience in this field and little to no actual experience, offer you their two-cents, which will look hauntingly like what Derren Brown and Ian Rowland say on such things. So please do yourself a favor and actually talk to seasoned mentalists that have been doing this stuff since before the current trends; you don't learn how to be a plumber by asking a carpenter to teach you... if you get my drift.

Point taken Craig, I'll just go back to nailing down that loose floorboard then!

Flash wrote:

Craig Browning wrote:Now, before this day is out you are probably going to hear from a bunch of "experts", most all them having less than 10 years experience in this field and little to no actual experience, offer you their two-cents, which will look hauntingly like what Derren Brown and Ian Rowland say on such things. So please do yourself a favor and actually talk to seasoned mentalists that have been doing this stuff since before the current trends; you don't learn how to be a plumber by asking a carpenter to teach you... if you get my drift.

Point taken Craig, I'll just go back to nailing down that loose floorboard then!

My comment wasn't directed specifically at you Flash... far from it!

Rather, I was referring to the plethora of individuals calling themselves "Mentalists" simply because they've read Corinda & Annemann along with watching Derren and thus, modeling themselves and their philosophy off of what he and Ian have encouraged. It's caused a serious problem within the craft, especially when we look at the contrasts between the UK and how we in the States look at things.

People lock onto trends and make them their "gospel" so to speak, rather than applying just a bit of effort to dig just a bit deeper and get some idea as to the entire issue. This isn't exclusive to magic, mind you, it happens in all areas of life. The problem is our current situation when it comes to Mentalism is creating a horrible rift that may probe irreparable in the long run.

For many years (generations) the majority of the working pros of Mentalism avoided or had very little contact with the magic community because of some of the transitions that took place within the craft. As recently as the early and mid-20th century even the stage magician exploited the public's superstitions and belief in things paranormal and occult. It wasn't until the late 1950s actually, that the first major public push came into play, that removed this image. Granted, Howard Thurston was one of the first big names to call himself an "Illusionist" but even he exploited people's phobias and lack of education so as to entrance them and create the air of mystery and intrigue that was magic.

In the late 1960s and moving into the 70s three particular acts exploited the whole commercialism element that "winged" magic away from these formal modes of association; Doug Henning, Sigfred & Roy and then David Copperfield, all of it coming into vogue as the result of Randi's vendetta towards Uri Gellar (and believe me, there is a lot more to that story than what's commonly known... it really was a vendetta).

Long story short, there are many in our world today that do not want any aspect of magic to lean on those older modes of performance or the traditional lines of practice laid around them. This has become more and more pronounced in recent years, unofficially in address to situations like The Mystery Schools of McBride fame and the growing number of pros during the late 80s and 90s that sought to restore some of this former sense of intrigue... what's loosely evolved into Bizarre Magick.

Adding to this deteriorization of magic (over all) is the gross commercialism we are now seeing along side the greed and lust of the typical enthusiast that wants it all but is unwilling, in most cases, to "earn" their wands. In short, we have more incredibly bad magic and worse, more "clones" in today's market than ever before, as the result of these trends.

Mentalism, though a kindred art form, is nothing even remotely close to being the same thing as "Magic". The ONLY people that see this as not being true are the magicians that just simply don't give a darn and, via their selfishness (and a heavy dose of laziness in most cases) don't want to support the art in the manner that it's been proven. They would rather cheapen it and present it as a trick, than to learn it and how to do it properly, exploiting those psychological elements that allow the "illusion" created through Mentalism, to work for them.

As much as I respect and admire both, Derren Brown and Banachek I also believe that their constant act of saying it's all rubbish ruins not just their potential, but the craft itself (fortunately, Steve isn't as bad about it as Derren tends to be, nor as rude and disrespectful).

In the past year alone, I've heard at least a dozen noted personalities in magic insult their audiences when it comes to this issue, by telling them "It's all hogwash and if you believe in it, you're an idiot" (some using words almost exactly as that line.) This is uncalled for, it is disrepectful of other's beliefs, the art itself, and quite frankly I believe it's disrespectful of ourselves as well. After all, such a bullish approach makes the performer look insecure and a bully in the eyes of the typical educated mortal.

When it comes to the issue of Morality & Ethics within Mentalism and all facits of Psychic Entertainment, the onness is on the performer his/her self. It does not matter what all the other knowitalls have to say so long as you can sleep well at night knowing that you've done nothing to bring harm or loss to others and in some way, given to them a positive sense of memory as well as affirmation that helps them move ahead in life in a positive, productive manner that benefits others.

A good place to start to learn mentalism on DVD would be Richard Osterlinds Easy to Master Mental Miracles. But if you don't mind reading of course it would be 13 steps to Mentalism

magic8697 wrote:A good place to start to learn mentalism on DVD would be Richard Osterlinds Easy to Master Mental Miracles. But if you don't mind reading of course it would be 13 steps to Mentalism

And this pertains to the topic, how?

Yes, I personally believe the Osterlind collection is a "Must Have" for today's interested enthusiasts in that it shows them some of the "old stuff" they gloss over when reading and reveals just how powerful it really is. I endorse all of Bob Cassidy's material for similar reasons, but mainly because he shares real life and real work perspectives that many do not.

In learning Mentalism one must also consider what aspects of it intrigue you (call to you) the most and why? Where Corinda & Annemann give you a foundation and general overview, they are but the initial steps in the right direction. From there one must find the mode of performance he/she is most comfortable with as well as which avenues will lend to them the optimum sense of advantage.

Not everyone out there can do an act like the one I do but then again, I can't do a show that's designed and presented in the format Banachek or John Riggs would do... we are each individuals and as such, we've found our own areas of expertise as well as those skill areas we are most comfortable (natural) at working with. Again, there are some limited parallels to this within traditional magic, but for the Mentalist there are factors that go a bit outside that sphere in that (like it or not) people will see us as being "the real deal". That's reality though there are those that are adamately opposed to it. Thing is, we cannot change people's beliefs by being bullish, we can however spoon feed them points of view that are far easier to digest while still maintaining the psychological investment of belief mentalism requires.

magic8697 wrote:
A good place to start to learn mentalism on DVD would be Richard Osterlinds Easy to Master Mental Miracles. But if you don't mind reading of course it would be 13 steps to Mentalism


And this pertains to the topic, how?


Umm in that someone asked a direct question about it??

CutToTheAce wrote:magic8697 wrote:
A good place to start to learn mentalism on DVD would be Richard Osterlinds Easy to Master Mental Miracles. But if you don't mind reading of course it would be 13 steps to Mentalism


And this pertains to the topic, how?


Umm in that someone asked a direct question about it??

Hmm... you both must be seeing something I'm not.

look at the top. you will see ace of key, he asked where is a good place to get started in mentalism. what do you guys think of john edward. the guy that "can talk to the dead". I personally think that it is hurtfull. And I'm really surprised there hasn't been anyone on tv that has exposed him yet. I've seen countless specials exposing uri geller. How come know one has exposed edwards for what he really is