talkmagic.co.uk

I'm almost positive there has been a topic similar to this one posted before, unfortunately the search function is nearly useless and I wasn't able to track one down.

I'm a beginning magician and I'm focusing mainly on card tricks. I'm doing my best to learn the basics before I even attempt a full routine, or even one solid trick.

What I need assistance with is the double under cut. Don't get me wrong, I can do it, but instead of looking like I'm cutting the deck at random losing the card, it looks like I'm cutting the deck in specific places and controlling the card to the top...which isn't exactly what I'm going for.

What can I do to make this seem more natural? What other card controls could I try my hand at to force a card to the top? I'd appreciate any help at all. Thanks a lot.

Luke

what book or DVD are you learning from? if you are not then you should it will help

Royal Road to Card Magic Book or 5 DVD set

Born to perform DVD

When you do the move do you look at the deck (Dont!) is it smooth or do you stop slightly in parts? the problem is that people may not talk about this stuff on an open forum.

Erm you could learn the pass, takes a while to learn, but when you finally get it its very satisfiying watching yourself in the mirror doing it. You can buy on the pass- by richard kaufmann i think its called good dvd £16 from penguin.

Adam

Firstly is this your opinion of how it looks or has someone told you this?

Hardly anything in magic looks right when you know what is actually happening!

Perform this move casualy and smoothly and you will have no problems. I pretty much do this everytime i have a card returned. Dont look at the cards and dont mention that you are going to cut the cards, or that you are cutting them.

If you fel a spectator suspects something you may want to follow with a overhand shuffle, using a jog to retain the top stock too.

As with anything in magic practise makes perfect

I fail to see how learning the pass will help to master the double undercut. Its becoming a bit of a standard response now, hey forget that; learn the pass.

Anyway, firstly you need to become comfortable handling the deck. I will assume that you haven't got to that stage. Its hard to explain but its that odd moment when the cards in your hand begin to feel natural. Everything will start to get a little bit easier at this point.

Next, and there is no getting away from this ... practise. The move seems simple enough, but for it to look natural it must be natural. You need to do it without thinking, and your hands just get on with it. Get a video camera or webcam and video yourself, then study how your handling the cards. Try to understand what you don't like about your performance. Perhaps there is nothing wrong with what your doing, its just your point of view. You need to look at it from the spectators point of view.

Finally, get hold of some videos of magicians in action (performance not explanation). Watch the performance (not the explanation) and look out for double undercuts. When you see one study it. Watch it with the sound off, does it feel different. Verbal and non-verbal misdirection makes a huge difference.

I think, also, if you are new to magic then there is a somewhat guilty feeling - you know you are doing something so the spectators must.

That's not true - just relax I find anything in life - but especially card magic - is easier if you are relaxed don't grip the cards too hard.

Thanks gentleman,

For starters, I've been learning from the renegade (instant download) on penguin because I really love Oz. But now that you mention it, I have born to perform so I'll probably check the double under cut section out in that DVD, I forgot it was there.

To answer other questions, I thought it was relatively smooth myself but I was told by a spectator today that it looked awkward. I'll play a bit with my grip and see if that makes a difference in the naturalness. The shuffle was also an excellent suggestion, thanks a lot.

As for the guy who recommended the pass; I'm going to have to say that I'm not quite there yet. After all, I'm having difficulties making a double undercut look good.

Also; Just a quick question about exposure. When talking about something like the double undercut, or hindu shuffle, etc. Just how careful do I need to be?

I can understand walking cautiously when referring to marketed effects, or moves that are uncommon and trick specific; but, it seems excessive to be warning me that some might not be willing to discuss this kind of move in the open. Isn't it a move so common to card magic that it can be discussed on a magic forum? It seems like nearly every card magic book/dvd etc. will explain it.

Please don't misunderstand, I'm not arguing with the rules, I understand the need for secrecy and the respect for intellectual property very well, I'm just trying to get a feel for the guidelines so I don't over step my bounds.

londonletmedown wrote:When talking about something like the double undercut, or hindu shuffle, etc. Just how careful do I need to be?

It's a difficult question in some respects, the words themselves will mean very little outside magic except perhaps an indication that some sort of 'move' is going on. If you were to describe a routine and it uses the Hindu Shuffle then that's OK. It wouldn’t be OK (or necessary ) to describe how to do the Hindu Shuffle.

Most phrases used in card and coin magic are either meaningless to outsiders or have different meanings outside anyway. We very much prefer to leave thing to members’ common sense to see if a post is too explicit but you can always PM the Mods to check if you’re uncertain about something you’re planning on posting.

Thanks mandrake thats exactly what I was half way through typing. Although you put it far more eloquently and with significantly more ..... authority.

Pdjamez, if i have it write, i mentioned the pass because he said are there any other ways of controlling the card to the top second to last sentance of his original post- suggest you read it first.

cordenadam wrote:Pdjamez, if i have it write, i mentioned the pass because he said are there any other ways of controlling the card to the top second to last sentance of his original post- suggest you read it first.

Cordenadam, there are numerous ways to control a card to the top of the deck. You suggested using the pass to someone who is having trouble with the double undercut - suggest you think it through first.

This was THE Dvd for me when I started my card magic...my first DVD...very very useful....

http://www.magictricks.co.uk/prodshow.asp?code=312

Hope it helps....

Pdjamez- i cannot do a double-undercut, although i can do the pass rather easily, with a double undercut i find the handling to weird.

cordenadam wrote:Pdjamez- i cannot do a double-undercut, although i can do the pass rather easily, with a double undercut i find the handling to weird.

Hm...I don't mean to be rude but if you have spend the time with cards that is needed for a good pass you should definitely be able to cut the pack.



Kati

I know what i can and can't do, and i know i cant do a double undercut.