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yeah but you also buy the dvds to learn how a trick is done so you can perform it yourself

Misanthropy wrote:yeah but you also buy the dvds to learn how a trick is done so you can perform it yourself

That's true.
But, inevitably, most of the routines on a bought DVD aren't learned.
I have maybe 500 tricks/routines on DVD and video.
I can't, and don't want to learn all those routines.
A dozen routines is more than enough.

But the great thing is that I can learn other things from watching the presentation.
The explanations, too, often have presentation tips that are useful.

And for most of us it's not the tricks that we do that need improving, it's the way that we perform.

And that's what we can learn from the masters of the art.

Saxmad... I very much understood where you were coming from and as I said, I believe it was a bit of putting the cart before the horse in that learning the theatrical side of things is not something most newbies are even remotely interested in at said stage... for an example Misanthropy's previous two posts more or less say it all. You can add to this the fact that the typical mentality of magicians (magic hobbysts) is that they want to learn a trick NOT how to perform magic.

I can't tell you the number of "showmanship" and "Technical Theater for Magicians" type lectures I've attended, lead by major players like Eugene Berger, Peter Pit, and Jay Scott Berry and the "magicians" moaned, left early, were showing each other card moves in the back of the room during the lecture, ignoring what was being said and then the real capper is that they bad mouth the person that gave the lecture because they didn't tip any good tricks...

The other reason I don't encourage young people to watch videos of other performers too much, is that we get into the habit of mimicking those we watch and appreciate. I still do this from time to time when I see a routine that is so exceptionally tight that I can find no way of improving upon it; my version of 4th Demensional Telepathy is nearly word for word what Bob Cassidy presents, not because I can't tailor it to my own style, but because a.) Bob & I have a similar style and b.) the presentation is nearly perfect. But look at how many people do the same basic Lakes Guilotine patter and gags... how many of us handle the girl on the broom almost exactly as Richiardi did... we all mimick what has been proven "the best" in our persception, especially when those ideas are imprinted in our mind during a formative period in our studies.

I understand your thought and goals but your position is unique and I'm betting part of the reason for that has to do with your age and life experience vs. that of our young friend... again, perspective is an important thing.

Craig Browning wrote:I can't tell you the number of "showmanship" and "Technical Theater for Magicians" type lectures I've attended, lead by major players like Eugene Berger, Peter Pit, and Jay Scott Berry and the "magicians" moaned, left early, were showing each other card moves in the back of the room during the lecture, ignoring what was being said and then the real capper is that they bad mouth the person that gave the lecture because they didn't tip any good tricks...

Yes, I've seen that kind of thing myself and it's quite sad.
Let's hope that magic one day progresses beyond the "card move" mentality and becomes something more than the "Cinderella" of art forms.

I never said I wasn't interested in learning how a magician presents a trick, manages a audience etc. Everytime I watch a magician if its to learn a trick or just watching him perform a trick I look at how he presents it. It would be so easy to learn something and then practise it and go out and perform it for someone else but you have to know how to use the right patter, timing, how to act so you can get the best reaction possible.

Misanthropy wrote:I never said I wasn't interested in learning how a magician presents a trick, manages a audience etc. Everytime I watch a magician if its to learn a trick or just watching him perform a trick I look at how he presents it. It would be so easy to learn something and then practise it and go out and perform it for someone else but you have to know how to use the right patter, timing, how to act so you can get the best reaction possible.

Damn!!!
Just as Craig and I start to agree, you have to go and spoil everything, Misanthropy!