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by **Farlsborough** » Jul 16th, '06, 00:38

Tone wrote:im so confused by the pass.... i thought i was practicing it the right way, but i can't see how i could ever get it as good as that, i guess i have to try and afford to buy this instruction.

im so confused right now.

Tone, are you looking at it from the right angle? I was in the same situation as you a while ago, because I was looking right at the side of the cards in the mirror, and thinking "how can people *possibly* not notice the cards slipping down?" etc, but if you hold the cards slightly lower and tilt the backs towards the spec(s) slightly, the whole thing is obscured by the deck. Then it's just a matter of erasing any tell-tale hand movements.

by **bronz** » Jul 16th, '06, 12:24

Ah good point Farlsborough. I use the pass frequently but I'm always trying to improve it. From my pov looking down at my hands it looks ok but in the mirror it looks obvious. To me at least.

by **Citrus** » Jul 16th, '06, 12:34

I had that exact same problem, however i found if you try and force yourself to bring your hands down to cover it, eventally it will become more and more natural and fluid.

I'm really not trying to sounds as if i can do the pass 'perfectly' and should be giving loads of avice, its just something i came across when i first started learning the sleight.

by **KardAdict** » Jul 18th, '06, 11:46

The pass is one of the few card sleights I simply cannot do. My only reference for it is The Royal Rd To Card Magic. But its not very clear. So I admire any magician, who can do the pass as smoothly and as well as that.

Although is the pass a necissary sleight? I am not so sure.

by **Citrus** » Jul 18th, '06, 13:48

Hey

Well if you want to become a skilled cardinian then yes it is a necessary skill, however if you practice it you will eventually be able to do it.

I also makes life so much easier, especially with ACR type routines because you do not have to pull off doubles all the time and you can actually show them their card going into the middle of the deck.

But remember these are my views alone and there are probably far greater skilled magicians who might totally disagree with what i just said. So try and have a look around and then you decide if you feel it is a necessity to you.

Hope this might of helped

by **Citrus** » Jul 18th, '06, 14:02

Seige wrote:Hey

Just found this comment in the forum, talking about Classic Passes:

KardAdict wrote:
Although is the pass a necissary sleight? I am not so sure.

Goodness gracious...

Well, if you remove the classic pass or it's variants from most Cardie's memory, they'd be pretty stuck.

OF COURSE it is a necessary sleight. How can you 'not be so sure' if you're not trying to learn it?

By learning the BASICS of sleights, moves and subtelties, you build an impromptu arsenal of ways of getting into and out of effects.

The more you learn and get involved in magic, the more you will appreciate why comments such as "LEARN THE BASICS", "READ THE CLASSIC TEXTS", "GET INVOLVED WITH THE OLD-SCHOOL STUFF" are so important.

Learning the basics, as boring as they may seem, and as tedious as they may seem—perhaps because they don't let you shove a coin thru a can within 3 minutes of reading—will make you a much wiser, more versatile, more valued and more articulate magician.

So many newer would-be-magicians are lazy. VERY lazy. I blame this on self-working, visual and easy to do magic. When it comes to REAL magic, such as anything involving skill, the new-age 'want it now' magician's tremble.

Here's some typical slots I place people in when I see new members looking for advice here...

1. If the first effect you bought was a self-working effect and you're wanting to get into magic more seriously. But you crave to be able to do more technical stuff, but havent' the drive to get any further—you just want it handed to you on a plate. However, the magic you now seek will probably end up being downloaded from filesharing forums, as your initial purchase left you cold as to how quickly the novelty wore off.

2. You are a genuine 'student of magic'. You crave knowledge and every ounce of advice you're given you follow up. You practice until you're good enough to show off, and you generally don't go out annoying your mates with your latest knowledge until you're happy that it works.
You come seeking wisdom, as you appreciate that wisdom comes from those who have trodden the same path you now tread, and they are only wiser because their journey has taken them further.

3. You've found TalkMagic whilst browsing a search engine for 'how to do criss angel magic' or somesuch, and you are trying to talk-the-talk and walk-the-walk in the hope of getting some knowledge for free. You have absolutely no interest in magic other than to lift the lid on exposing the secrets, or your curiousity is simply so you can impress your friends with your skills. You make no attempt whatsoever to show gratitude or manners for what is essentially a labour of love—being as this forum is generally contributed to volunarily.

4. You have a limited knowledge of magic, and you're not afraid to voice an opinion. You've studied forums, read posts, and think you know it all—or at least you act that way.
You shun advice, ignore rules, forget hospitality, disregard etiquette, and seem to be on a mission to cause trouble. Arrogance, bad attitude and expletive use of English seem to be your only virtues.

Sorry to go on and on and on... but reality check: What motivates people to post such rubbish?

I mean, we really do all have to start learning somewhere. It's true. And I didn't mean to pick on KardAddict... that was just the catalyst really.

However, it's interesting that the 'noobs' on forums in general—not just magic—are out for what appears to be a free ride.
_________________

I think that covers you question a lot bettern than i did it :lol:

by **seige** » Jul 18th, '06, 14:12

And please, bear in mind the comments in that thread are NOT a direct diss at KardAddict... the classic pass was only the catalyst which got me onto broader things.

I realise our good man KardAdict is reading RRTCM... which is a great start, and voids him/her from most of the comments I made.

by **mark lewis** » Jul 18th, '06, 16:24

I don't think the pass is "necessary" nor "essential". You can do a lot of very good card magic without it.

At one time many, many, many years ago it was indeed essential for a card magician to master it since there was no other way in those days to control a selected card to the top (or indeed bottom) of the deck. Nowadays there are dozens and dozens of methods of controlling a selected card some of which are just as good as the pass and certainly easier.

However I am not saying you should never master the sleight. I am merely saying it is not "essential" to do so. I do it very well indeed since I am MARK LEWIS but a strange miracle happened when I mastered it. It only took me around 10 minutes to do so. Yep. I mastered this reputedly difficult sleight in 10 minutes. I am not quite sure how I did so. I can only put it down to a fluke since other sleights (particularly the DL) took me forever to master. I remember learning it from an ancient book by someone called Charles Roberts. I think the illustrations were good and this had something to do with it.

It is still a useful sleight and there are some tricks that cannot be done without it. Furthermore it is a useful sleight to use as an "out" in certain situations.

However if you can't master it don't fret. You don't need it.

by **seige** » Jul 18th, '06, 16:38

OK, I find myself miserably conceding to Mark... (as usual

)

However, in my comparatively short experiences, I've found the Classic Pass to be one of the single most useful, simple and deft card controls there is. Many books and effects reference it, without teaching it.

Many magician's reference it casually, assuming it's in your repertoire of sleights.

So, to be concise: I agree with Mark that it ISN'T totally necessary. However, by taking a half-hour to learn its basics of this fantastic move, you may save a lot of time and effort looking for alternatives in the future when requested to perform a pass.

However, Mark's closing statement, 'you won't need it' may be a little inaccurate. There will certainly be times when you MAY need it. Won't is a little too final

See... even on a hot day and in a bad mood, I can still be reasonable

by **fireshower** » Jul 18th, '06, 16:59

Yes, I must say the pass isn't completely necessary, and when people are burning my hands I still feel more comfy doing a diagonal palm shift even though my pass looks invisible to a mirror.

Why? Simply because even though I know I CAN do a pass, there are still easier sleights out there. Don't get me wrong, I love a good pass (in fact the pass is what got me into magic) but let's note a couple things you can do instead of a pass...

1. Double undercut

2. Diagonal Palm Shift with a bottom control to the top

3. Tilts (mostly ACR)

The ends justify the means. If the chosen card is at the top, the spectator doesn't really care how difficult the sleight was, it's all the same (which is why some ACRs are incredibly boring).

By the way, you guys will rarely ever see me take the anti-pass stance so this is one for the record

by **KardAdict** » Jul 18th, '06, 19:48

I still stand by the fact that you can acheive visually stunning magic without using the pass.

I am sure that if I got a better reference (RRTCM doesn't give a great description on the pass, correct me if I'm wrong!) then I may be able to use it.

I agree that it is an important usefull card sleight, and was once the backbone of card magic, but it is not ABSOLUTELY neccesery.

You can control a card to the top by means of a DL, the backslip, and numerous false shuffles.

Still, thenks for your oppinion

And just for the record seige, no I am not a newbie "looking for it all on a plate". I did not "do a search" on how to do magic. Neither have I got absolutely no knowlege of magic and are trying to act as though I do. I have been doing card magic for Eight months now, and have read numerous boks on it, including RRTCM.

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