"Teach me a card trick"

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Postby katrielalex » Aug 12th, '06, 00:16



i1011i wrote:Just don't do it with the attitude... "Ha, silly mortal. I will not teach you my wondiferous amazingness! You will burn in the firey pits of hades for the rest of your pathetic existance while watching me do my ambitious card! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA" You know. nothing like that.


Aww, are you sure? I was so looking forward to that next time :cry:


In response to the posts above: after some internal debate I think I've decided not to give anything away. If he does actually want to learn then after he's started I'd be happy to give him pointers etc, but I think I'll let him start on his own.

Thanks again,

Kati

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Postby Sexton Blake » Aug 18th, '06, 15:33

I think what I do when asked to teach a trick fits in with what's implicit in Mr Tipton's posts. I - obsessively - never reveal any magical principles. And I'm very strict about what these are: they're anything whatsoever that can be used in more than one trick. So, not only is anything with, say, a DL right out, but so are a lot of the tricks you'd find in the cheapest, most basic, 'Ages 1-4' magic set kit. I wouldn't even do the Four Robbers, because it involves saying you're holding a certain amount of cards while really holding a different amount. I might - 'might' - teach a trick that's actually quite impressive (a card prediction, with a spec-shuffled deck, based on three, freely, spec-chosen cards comes to mind: can't recall its name right now - it's in RRTCM), but that teaches them them nothing but that, specific trick. That's the key, as far as I'm concerned. So, say, the Piano Trick is a good one to teach, card-wise.

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Postby Mark228 » Aug 19th, '06, 14:27

I would show what I consider not-so-good tricks such as DL or the one where you have to put the deck behind your back and theirs is eventually the only card face down (top and bottom card thing, don't know its name). I have to admit I have been persuaded into showing some of my better stuff to a friend or two during drunken weak moments :roll: . But there are some tricks I wouldn't know if I hadn't managed to persuade the person who showed it me to teach me how its done, so I kind of pass one or two of those on on rare occasions while extracting an oath of secrecy if the person is really persistently asking and shows real enthusiasm.

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Postby Sexton Blake » Aug 19th, '06, 17:25

Mark228 wrote:I would show what I consider not-so-good tricks such as D/L or the one where you have to put the deck behind your back and theirs is eventually the only card face down


As an aside, you can make this a really strong trick. In the many beginner's magic books where it's described, there's always the 'then put the pack behind your back' bit, which is rubbish. However, if you do the necessary with misdirection and hand cover instead (a very easy move - similar to, but even easier then, a turnover pass as it concerns only one card) you can then place the pack in one person's hand and ask him to turn it over slowly while the other person - the one who chose the card - concentrates on it and their card. It will then seems that a freely chosen card, that you didn't know, was the only card that, impossibly, stayed fixed when the pack was turned over in a spec's hand.

Back to my point, though. Even if the trick in its original form is poor, the principle it uses (making the pack appear the opposite way round) is used in quite a few other tricks. So, I, personally, wouldn't teach that trick because it reveals a method used elsewhere.

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Postby lozey » Aug 20th, '06, 15:08

I did the Messiah coin vanish in the pub where i worked once for a customer. There was a workmate behind the bar and her jaw hit the floor. She was really nice and always loved to see magic so i showed another person later with her 'in' on the angle. She laughed but she loved it so much, she went home and practiced it and now she loves performing it.

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Postby Figo » Aug 20th, '06, 23:27

i love when people ask me to teach them a trick. i've got a routine where it looks like I'm teaching them but each time i do something different happens and ends up leaving them more confused than when they originally asked me . it's one of my favourite card routines i recommend learning something like this.

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Postby Scott Daly » Aug 21st, '06, 10:28

Sorry, I really feel like I have to vent my spleen on this one. I hate stepping on anyones toes but I think that :-

1. showing someone secrets of magic in moments of drunken weakness

2. showing a barmaid the messiah coin vanish as she is "nice"

is verging on the absurd. This ignorant take on magic is only showing that you completely misunderstand or even worse direspectfully ignore one of the most basic fundamental laws of magic. I reiterate :- A true magician NEVER (and again) NEVER reveals his secrets. If this isn't important to the art then why is it in the very front pages of every single "beginers" books???

You spend (or should if you're serious) long periods of time and money learning and perfecting the craft and then cheapen it by showing someone how it works as they are nice??

If you want to share your hard earned material to people for gods sake find something else to share, and leave us real "magicians" to take the art further in peace. I would like to thank you for making our job a lot harder.

Lastly in the same vein as seige, would a plumber teach his next door neighbour his trade for free? NO, WHY? because ultimately it could prove detrimental to his business.

I'm no snob, and the reason I can still find work is because people enjoy magic, but always recommend books etc, as I stated in a previous postif someone has to pay for knowledge they will guard it much better, which in turn guards are art!!

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Postby mccabe24 » Aug 21st, '06, 15:24

I always show them the same effect: the piano card trick (from Scarne on card tricks). It is self working, but not obvious, so I tell them that I've put magical powers into their hands. Most of them beleive me! :lol: The reason for showing the same trick is so not too many of my effects are known to anyone who will potentually be at a performance of mine.

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Postby mccabe24 » Aug 21st, '06, 15:30

By the way, Scott Daly, there is nothing wrong with showwing a little kid or one of your friends how to do one simple trick. When I tell the kid what to do at my shows, I make it so he does it on a adult volenteer. The crowd finds the effect of me giving the kid magic powers almost or just as impressive as me doing one of my decent effects (not my best effects). Plus after that, I can give the kid a deck of cards and tell him to go home and practice. The kid will love it, and so will the rest of the crowd.

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Postby Scott Daly » Aug 21st, '06, 16:08

I never disputed this!! fair comment but teaching a kid a simple trick is not really the same as showing the messiah vanish to a barmaid. I just think that todays amatuer performers are far to inclined to show people methods behind tricks. And IMHO there really is no excuse what so ever for showing someone more advanced stuff in a moment of drunken weakness, period. It would really irritate me if I showed someone an ACR for example only for my spectator to say "oh aye its that thing this pi**ed guy showed me once!"

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Postby lozey » Aug 21st, '06, 19:29

Scott Daly wrote:Sorry, I really feel like I have to vent my spleen on this one. I hate stepping on anyones toes but I think that :-

1. showing someone secrets of magic in moments of drunken weakness

2. showing a barmaid the messiah coin vanish as she is "nice"

is verging on the absurd. This ignorant take on magic is only showing that you completely misunderstand or even worse direspectfully ignore one of the most basic fundamental laws of magic. I reiterate :- A true magician NEVER (and again) NEVER reveals his secrets. If this isn't important to the art then why is it in the very front pages of every single "beginers" books???

You spend (or should if you're serious) long periods of time and money learning and perfecting the craft and then cheapen it by showing someone how it works as they are nice??

If you want to share your hard earned material to people for gods sake find something else to share, and leave us real "magicians" to take the art further in peace. I would like to thank you for making our job a lot harder.


I'm no snob, and the reason I can still find work is because people enjoy magic, but always recommend books etc, as I stated in a previous postif someone has to pay for knowledge they will guard it much better, which in turn guards are art!!



1)The barmaid was NOT just a barmaid,as i stated she was a college! She was somebody i knew and trusted 'rightfully' to practice a wonderful piece of magic and to guard its secret.
2)If magicians never revealed anything then there would be no magic as we know it, Scarne, Dai Vernon and many others wouldnever had had their work carried on.
3) Yes i spend hours practicing, which is why i know that learning something from a person as opposed to a book is a lot easier if you are a beginner
4) I was not drunk at the time if that is what you were suggesting, I had just gone in to look at my rota and chat to my colleges!

I think you could have used a little more tact in your post

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Postby popcorn » Aug 21st, '06, 23:11

I'd teach them a simple slip force and get them to 'read someones mind' - 'I know what card you picked...' etc etc!

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Postby katrielalex » Aug 22nd, '06, 00:09

Hmmm...not sure that I like the idea of teaching a muggle (8)) a force. I like the "principles" rule - nothing that's applicable to another trick.

Kati

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Postby Scott Daly » Aug 22nd, '06, 10:47

Lozey,

Fairy nuff, I never suggested you were drunk, and I apologise if it seemed that way but if you read back through the posts in this thread someone else said this! I'm sorry if I offended you and yes maybe I could use more tact, there was not enough info in your post to give a true picture but that is my fault for jumping the gun so again I'm sorry. I still feel I make some valid points though, just maybe not in the right way.

I just get really annoyed with misinformed laypeople spoiling things for the likes of me (and now I realise) you who spend a lot of time and effort on their craft.

Obviously things have to be passed on for the survival of the art, but to the right people who have proved themselves somewhat, I'm sure Vernon never just gave out secrets willy nilly!

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Postby Sexton Blake » Aug 22nd, '06, 14:53

katrielalex wrote: teaching a muggle


This is going to confuse the issue, but what I find a lot harder is when they aren't entirely a muggle. I was visiting a friend recently, and it seems he's got into magic. For the people at the table, he did the TT silk vanish, and a coin through a bottle, and a trick with a Sven deck, and a version of OOTW that he very nearly got right. He wasn't bad, massively, but he wasn't good - for one thing, his puppyish excitement led him to do some tricks again and again until, inevitably, the watchers figured them out. Later, he eagerly (and pointlessly) showed me his gimmicks and how things were done and (depressingly - well, it depressed me) waved a copy of Fulves Mental Miracles and asked if I'd seen it.

Now, I'm no master - not by a long shot - but I've put rather a lot of time and effort into being pretty good, within limits, and it's paid off. He asked me to show him a trick and it's boomingly implicit that he'll want me to show him the method afterwards. I mean, we're both magicians, right? And he's happily, unasked, showed me all his secrets. What do you do? Partly there's the (my) gut feeling that you should, sort of, 'earn' the right to the cream (and he already had OOTW in his pocket), through committment. But also there's the practical situation that I suspect anything I show him he'll reveal to pure blood muggles - accidentally, but doing it repeatedly, not very well, without enough practise. Socially, however, it's an awkwards situation.

(Oh, BTW, I noticed he'd got Sadowitz's DVD. He said he hadn't watched it yet. The Piano Trick is on that DVD, so I showed him that - it baffled him. He was going to see how it was done anyway, so I had nothing to lose. Good old Piano Trick: what would I do without you?)

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