talkmagic.co.uk

Although I am a newcomer to the magic/mentalism scene, it has not taken long for me to experience the pressure that spectators sometimes exert upon performers to reveal how effects are done, and of course the various forums are filled with people trying to do the same thing online - without paying for those effects, and hence depriving those who develop them of the revenue they deserve. I suspect that as a layperson, this pressure is even greater than that which a professional would experience, given that I have no obvious financial reason to keep my friends, etc. in the dark. At times I have even by asked by other performers to explain how something was done, and have engendered tension by refusing to do so.

Now, I would really appreciate some clarity as to the 'rules of the game.' In particular, I have recently wondered whether it is considered ethical to buy an effect in concert with another person (i.e. to both enjoy it). On the one hand, to simply purchase something for myself and later share it with someone else is clearly wrong. But what if an effect is so pricey that I wouldn't buy it except that someone else is willing to bear some of the cost? Is this similarly problematic? Sharing software is illegal, as is 'copying' a book. But learning an idea from a book, e.g. how to make money in real estate, and then sharing that idea with a friend, is clearly not illegal. Is it unethical? I don't think I know anyone who would say so.... Does it matter (in the case of magic) whether the solution is sufficiently complex that only a study of the book/DVD would enable someone to effectively perform the trick (as opposed to an idea so simple that it need only be related briefly)?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Well, it's TM policy that you can't buy a book or a DVD, learn it's secrets then sell it on, if that helps.

Actually benAbbuyah, you do have a financial reason for not revealing how an effect is done or even where you can purchase them for that matter; your revelations result in fewer and fewer of the pros wanting to share information and when they do, they charge more so as to compensate for the loss they will know thanks to Piracy, Horse Trading and good ole Exposure practices that are found here and there.

Yesterday I sent out an article to several of my friends who are noted writers and contributors to our world, two of whom were seriously looking at not producing any more material for the general market; selling only to a very small circle of trusted friends. Long story short, the information I shared with them has inspired them to give things another try... long story short, we now have a couple of new mouse traps that will allow us to catch the rodants who feel they can profit or barter using our Intellectual Property as their form of currency (when they aren't the one's that invested years of their life studying and cultivating said materials).

It may be a year or two before these new systems are fulling in place but just keep an eye out as to how many people start getting caught and prosecuted for Copyright infringements

Craig

I've already employed a rather ugly, but so far productive method for tracking file sharers buying from my own site.

I've tagged all PDF downloads with a serial number—and an IT buddy of mine has managed to find 2 copies of NUMS exclusive PDF files on file sharing forums.

Because of my method of PDF delivery, I know the IP address AND the NUMS order number of the culprit. Ergo, I know their name as well.

Now... let's consider a rather unbalanced equation here, the one which says '2 + 1 = 13'. Yep—what if something DOESN'T add up!

What I am saying is, I'm not going to accuse anyone of anything just yet. Because, as the post above clearly states, people like sharing stuff with others—and if that means that one of my own hard-written and painstakingly crafted PDF files is being propagated over the net, is it being shared by the PURCHASER, or someone who was given a COPY by the purchaser?

In which instance—does this mean the original purcaser is to blame?

Let's just say, I am bowled over with interest over this subject. And yes, it's made me think twice about releasing any more material.

My friend also informs me that it's easy to acquire just about any magic DVD or PDF via filesharing, and nothing is sacred anymore.

Pure and simple, it's piracy. And it will inevitably become 'the norm' for the modern computer-kid generation to look to the internet before making a purchase, just to make sure they're not wasting money on something they can get buckshee.

Craig Browning wrote:It may be a year or two before these new systems are fulling in place but just keep an eye out as to how many people start getting caught and prosecuted for Copyright infringements

Personally, I can't wait. There might be an article in it too.

I've been wracking my brains trying to come up with a foolproof plan to stop PDF piracy (as well as in the secrets area) but it seems that wel-publicised prosecutions are possibly the only way. The only other thing I can think of is to have people apply to become customers in writing, and only take those who are members of a recognised magical society, such as the Magic Circle or IBM, or a well-regarded regional society that inclues a performance as part of the entrance criteria.

seige wrote:What I am saying is, I'm not going to accuse anyone of anything just yet. Because, as the post above clearly states, people like sharing stuff with others—and if that means that one of my own hard-written and painstakingly crafted PDF files is being propagated over the net, is it being shared by the PURCHASER, or someone who was given a COPY by the purchaser?

To my mind, it had to be shared initially, and that means that the original purchaser is at fault for deliberately duplicating copyright materials and passing them on. It's not something you can do by accident.

When it comes to PDFs, if they're causing so much trouble why not simply STOP producing PDFs and stick to books and booklets and DVDs? Sure, this wouldn't solve much but at least it would make things somewhat harder for pirates.

Obviously you would have to weigh up the amount of money you are making from E-Book purchases and the amount of money you are loosing through the piracy of them, but it's an idea nonetheless.

Cardza wrote:When it comes to PDFs, if they're causing so much trouble why not simply STOP producing PDFs and stick to books and booklets and DVDs? Sure, this wouldn't solve much but at least it would make things somewhat harder for pirates.

Obviously you would have to weigh up the amount of money you are making from E-Book purchases and the amount of money you are loosing through the piracy of them, but it's an idea nonetheless.

Not a bad plan, but during my 'research' I've discovered that even the Art of Astonsihment—all 3 volumes—have been painstakingly scanned and converted to PDF.

These beggars won't stop doing it. So soldier on is the only way I think.

Cardza wrote:When it comes to PDFs, if they're causing so much trouble why not simply STOP producing PDFs and stick to books and booklets and DVDs? Sure, this wouldn't solve much but at least it would make things somewhat harder for pirates.

Although for people like me living outside the USA or UK - buying (legit) downloadable pdf's is much better than having to wait for around a month for something to arrive (with a chance that it never will). The exchange rate is bad enough and then having to add postage in either pounds or dollars makes things pretty darn expensive.

As for file sharing, it is possible to do by accident, as some people may save a download to a directory that is shared without thinking about it - It may seem stuppid but is not always intentional. I do occasionally use file sharing (for legal purposes only - I DO NOT download copyrighted material without paying for it) and because of how I organise files on my disk I once saved files into a shared directory. Luckily I realised quite quickly and I'm pretty sure no-one managed to download it from me. I now am very careful about where I save things, but not everyone who uses a computer really knows what they're doing.

Hi Blumunky,

That's a good point that I hadn't considered. In that case I think it'd probably only take a strapline on the copyright page to remind people not to download it to a hared directory along with a reason why.

Thanks for the information - especially Craig's explanation of how even a layperson is financially affected by improper disclosure.

I still have specific concerns about the purchaser's obligations, aside from the obvious one to not share trade secrets with 'outsiders.' Is it permissible for more than one person to benefit from a purchased effect, assuming that was the intention at the outset. Put differently, is the assumption that every effect carries with it a 'single-user license'? If so, I think the best step would be to ask individual vendors (assuming they own the rights to the effect) if they will permit use by more than one person, and then the vendor can make a decision on a case-by-case basis.

Perhaps it's my relative inexperience, but it seems that the 'rules' on such matters are not very clear, and that magicians seem to talk as if it's a simple question of disclosure or no. In other media (such as books, music and videos, etc.) there are established standards, such that almost every possible use can be reckoned proper or improper. Am I wrong in suggesting that magic secrets remain more of a (pardon the pun) mystery?

Thanks again.[/img]