talkmagic.co.uk

ive been away....

@dimitri: i must say, that for the most part, you have swayed me. i am not anywhere near as upset about the whole thing as i was before. im really not as bothered, and i understand what you were saying about the viewers being the audience.
That said, i am upset that he would do such a simple effect with the incredible resources at his disposal. it seems like he should be pushing boundaries with everything he does, not just taking the easy way out.

as far as this being exposure, i personally dont think that it is since he is not just exposing it to expose it, but he is using it as an example to discuss chris angel and several magic concepts.

Very nicely written, and informative expose' you have posted here. Nothing at all given in a negetive light upon Criss as a whole, nor anything implied, other than the straight and skinny unto the incident of mention. Good form, and kudos to you.

Just a side note, in regard to the art of redirection as in one's tools, powers, skills, and success into achieving most "illusion" based magic. It comes in as ageless as the craft is old, and where it has been practiced, more times than not, there is usually there in the mix, one's "plant" or "shill" to bring it home. But, If discovered, just as in this mentioned incident has been, it certainly can bring down the curtain upon one's over all credibility. Be well, and PEACE!

Nicely written and fair criticism right there.
As for me, I have to say that, since I live in Germany, I do not get to watch hisshow all too often, but that I wathced it once about 2 months ago, while being over in California at a friends place.
The whole Criss Angel thing, what I do not like about him, although this is a question oftaste and point of view, is that he is pretending to be all gothic and stuff.
I have seen him once, same time when i was staying at my friends, while we were at the Magic Castle in real life. He doesnt nearly dress or act the same way he does on tv. Trust me, his whole appearance is a farce. Not to be degrading, i just want to state it.
You usually get better illusions from magicians not "widely" known to the public, like Darwin Ortiz or so. Especially concerning Clos Up Magid, which is, to me, the only "real" magic you can practice, because here, you have the possibility to start off with clean and end clean.
Greets
Chris

hi

just to say that I could teach anyone how to do a particular classic kids trick in two minutes as the prop does everything, but its the performance that counts

some mentalism is self working and could be tought in two minutes but its the performance that counts

some illusionists (even the best) don't even do the magic on some tricks but just stand there waveing their arms about, but it's the performance that counts

The thing that makes me think (and I have not seen the clip) is the fact that this did not end up on the editors cutting room floor! This guy had a good opertunity to forget the poor performance and do the trick again better elseware, a luxury aforded to those who work on film. He was either too lazy to do this or cut it and replace with another trick which is taking the **** for the amount he gets paid or perhaps he said "hey these other guys have to live with their mistakes in front of live audiences so I will live with mine on film" in which case he is very brave.

Connor, exactly why are you posting this? You said yourself you haven't seen the clip, yet you're talking about how this effect should have been either cut or refilmed.

Had you seen it firsthand, there would be some possible flashes. However, this "critique" (I use that term VERY loosely) explains the flashes and "botches" after a great deal of time watching the effect in slow motion and frame-by-frame. Bottom line - taken at face value and seen WITHOUT the advantage of going back and re-watching it, the method is more hidden than the original poster would have you believe.

This is something you might have known had you watched the clip BEFORE you accused him of being either lazy or brave. This thread was long (and thankfully) dead - why drudge it back up with a few speculations based on other people discussing something you never saw?

Seriously, can a mod please lock this thread. This way the dead horse doesn't need to be kicked every other month or so...

Just a quick note to ChriPusch - I agree with your opinion of the "goth" image - and I'm happy he has appeared to drop that in lieu of a more rock star persona. His latest season has him being more himself, and I personally think the quality of the show has increased greatly as a result. His image wasn't really a farce though. It's just that - a public image. Do you think guys like Marilyn Manson act the same way on their own, at home? Do you think the members of Slipknot wear the masks 24/7? Hardly. It's a public persona that helps promote what they're doing. You can't knock him for it because you saw him when he wasn't "on".

I won't address the close-minded comments about the only "real" magic. To each his own in that regard....

Demitri, i have to admit; you have changed my opinion a good bit. I guess I just dont understand why he needs Banachek and Thompson on his staff to come up with that. It just seems like a waste to me. But, like you said, his target audience isn't magicians. I think that that is my final thought.

sorry demitri

the post was actualy ment for those who thought it was a bad performance
my first line should have read 'Hi guys to those who thought the trick was bad'
It was suposed to make us think as to why a pro would be happy with his work when some of us are not.
I think film is a harder media than we give it credit for (freeze frame)
It was a poorly written reply sorry
perhaps your right and this thread should be locked before I get to write any more dross

Here is an example of a trick where Criss Angel used editing to make the trick seem more impressive than it is in person.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ5F_N9sajM&search=Angel%20di%20sappear

You see Criss pull out two tables. You then see spectators examine the tables to show that they are not rigged. After that you see Criss get on the tables, cover himself with sheet, and vanish. What is misleading it that the tables were not rigged when the spectators were examining it, but they were rigged when he vanished. The middle part where rigs the table was edited out. The viewers at home are lead to believe they were seeing the whole trick from start to finish including everything in between, when in reality that is not the case.

Cigam wrote:Here is an example of a trick where Criss Angel used editing to make the trick seem more impressive than it is in person.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ5F_N9sajM&search=Angel%20di%20sappear

You see Criss pull out two tables. You then see spectators examine the tables to show that they are not rigged. After that you see Criss get on the tables, cover himself with sheet, and vanish. What is misleading it that the tables were not rigged when the spectators were examining it, but they were rigged when he vanished. The middle part where rigs the table was edited out. The viewers at home are lead to believe they were seeing the whole trick from start to finish including everything in between, when in reality that is not the case.

I feel the need to ask "so what?", and also ask that you introduce yourself properly in the introductions forum, including a bit about your magic and level of exerience. It'll get you a better response than just butting in as your first post.

WHoa. Only just read this post but that is amazing It looks so obvious now.

Has anyone else noticed how many people on this thread have posted only once or twice in TOTAL? They say something on the lines of Chriss is a fraud, then vanish themselves

I must apologies to everyone.

I have used a sliding Die Box and a Drawer Box. I suppose I am a complete fraud.

When a few magicians get together, say down the pub, I would think they perform and practice for each other.

Otherwise, they perform for the public.

One last question.

Please post if you have NEVER made a mistake in your life, whether in magic, or otherwise.

Does that mean you are a useless fraud?


EDIT.

Apart from mark lewis posting that he has never made a mistake ,
this thread shouldn't be able to get anyone else perfect enough to answer.

Leave it to you to put the last post in here then Mr Lewis.

Darrel wrote:Has anyone else noticed how many people on this thread have posted only once or twice in TOTAL? They say something on the lines of Chriss is a fraud, then vanish themselves...

Exactly my thought, when I was browsing through the thread. Shouldn't the mods have some kind of limit to newcomers bashing... or maybe i is just ok to have it as it is?

Darrel wrote:Has anyone else noticed how many people on this thread have posted only once or twice in TOTAL? They say something on the lines of Chriss is a fraud, then vanish themselves

I'm a stat freak, so yes I think they're just glancing blows.

Cigam wrote:Here is an example of a trick where Criss Angel used editing to make the trick seem more impressive than it is in person.

You see Criss ...*exposure edited*

What you said is true, but this is one of the few "edited" effects that I enjoyed. Why? Because it looks great. I've commented a lot about Criss Angel in various threads but I dont think he is a bad magician. I just think he does waste a lot of his talent on unrealistic tricks, a lot of them dont even look that impressive.

Anyway, the thing I liked about this trick is that it looked "real". And as I've said on other boards, this trick is purely a "TV" trick. Its one that can really only be done in front of a camera for a TV show. It cant be done in a real life situation. The best thing about this trick? He didnt say "We havent met before, right? Everything is completely legit.. what you see is what you get". Everytime he says that (which is pretty much every trick now), it just makes me think he's lying or twisting words and that the audience is in on it. If he just kept his mouth shut and done the trick, I personally think his magic would seem more magical.

Yep. I don't think it presents too much of a problem in terms of raising the bar impossibly high for us non-TV magicians. Just say something like "Ah, I don't go in for all that big stuff. Strictly cards me. I'm the Angel of cards." or whatever line you want to use.