talkmagic.co.uk

Hey, Hope you will take the time to read and respond.

Are my abilities to use the search function inadequate? Or i might be correct in thinking that this subject has not arisen much in the past?

Nevertheless, this post shall set me straight. Where does one begin with dove magic? Simply question, But some doves. Ok, so i don't have any yet, but my friend has today told me where i might aquire some...

My question to you is What books are available to help learn simple, or maybe complicated dove magic? Where can i look for these books? What advice from experienced Doveians-A magician who performs dove magic... (probably not and word and so i claim it, [all usage of the word Doveians must first obtain my permission!]) ...can be passed onto me.

I shall collect all my dove questions here...
What does everyone think about dove magic? Apart from Channing Pollock and Lance Burton who made and make dove magic magical, Do you think it is a bit cheesy/tacky? Or not?
Did i read somewhere that Derren Brown used to perform Dove Magic? I may be mistaken, but if he ever did they are probably stuffed now, heh?
Are doves used because they are highly compressable, like silks for example?
Finally, Can you really get blue and red doves? Or do my eyes decieve me. They look like magic.

Anyway, Thanks for reading this post, which is far too long if i do say so myself. And please reply.
Edward.

You may have spotted the mistake, that should say
Buy Some doves not...

Simply question, But some doves.

Sorry,
Edward.

Be very careful! I heard the other week from a guy in the shop that he had recently inherited some magic equipment from the wife of an old magician who had passed away. Among the stuff he got was an old tail coat, on reciept of it he noticed an odd smell coming from one of the hidden pockets inside it......

I don't think I really need to finish this do I?

So if you buy a second hand tail coat (or a second hand dove) you'd better check to make sure.

Nick

Dove magic well performed certainly is magical, but for me personally I would say an awful lot of work and upkeep. Possibly ok for stage work and almost definitely very messy at times.

A less messy (and I guess less magical) solution would be to use a goshi sponge dove. (of course they exist - its Goshi )

http://murphysmagicsupplies.com/catalog ... hdove.html

Failing that there is Ian Adairs, Learning "The Basics of Dove Magic" video (not sure if it is also on DVD.

http://www.magictricks.com/videos/dovemag.htm
http://www.magicshopm.com/catalog/artofdovemagic.html

or Duane Fields' "Beginners Guide to Dove Magic"
http://murphysmagicsupplies.com/catalog ... odove.html

or if you prefer books you could try the "Encyclopedia of Dove Magic" by Marion Chavez (I think Ian Adair did one too)
http://www.hobbytron.net/Encyclopedia-o ... Magic.html
http://www.robsnell.com/matr-enofdom.html
http://www.ronjo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?

If you want to be a "dovician" there probably aren't that many people doing it well at the moment so maybe it is a good area to get into.

For me though, I still think it's too messy and smelly - but I may get a goshi

by the way we prefer to be called lovey dovies, because we are better actors than ordinary mages.

dove work like many livestock work has been frowned upon mostly out of ignorance because it takes a long time to train doves and for them to gain your confidence and you should were possible train them from chicks for better imprinting.

doves are not i repeat not squigable they die, they will however lie very still and almost asleep with training.

for dove work you need special harneses which vary in price and quality you may go through several before you find one right for you and your doves.

regards colour it is not in there feed as flamingoes so dont be fobbed off with special feed you actualy use food die or a kids hair dye which is harder to get hold of.

most dove production devices can be made yourself once your familiar with the basic dove principles, and doves should be loaded no more than twenty minuets before there reveal for hygine and stress reasons.

in the unlikely event that a dove dies before a reveal produce as asleep stoke head and place in cage which should always be covered to reduce stress.

hope this advice helps you.

Some more links I found, I know nothing about dove pie, sorry magic, so I thought I'd try and find out a bit more, heres the links I found.

All things dove from emagic :
http://www.emagictricks.co.uk/advanced_search_result.php?osCsid=31a5756b7344db08c97778d1cef6e97b&osCsid=31a5756b7344db08c97778d1cef6e97b&keywords=dove&x=9&y=7

Lots of dove stuff from misdirections :
http://www.misdirections.com/dove.html

All things dove from alakazam :
http://www.alakazam.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?SS=dove&PR=-1&TB=A&SHOP=

All things dove from magicbox :
http://www.magicbox.uk.com/search.php?query=dove

You will need one of these :
http://www.g2meyer.com/dovecote/?referrer=gadw

Encyclopedia of dove magic :
http://www.magictricks.com/magicbooks/animalbooks/encydove.htm

Dove magic video :
http://www.magictricks.com/videos/dovemag.htm

Dove to silk bag (does a dove mind being turned into a bag?) :
http://www.magictricks.com/animal/dovesilk.htm

Dove pan :
http://www.magictricks.com/animal/dovepan.htm

Dove harness (stop your mind right there mandrake) :
http://www.magictricks.com/animal/doveharness.htm

Hope that helps,
BaB

ps, remember that old saying, when in doubt keep the animals out, I am only guessing but I would guess that if you did a dove routine half the crowd would be amazed, the other half would instantly hate you for unfounded (i hope) cruelty reasons.
What are your thoughts on this ?

Can't say I'm too impressed with the thoughts of using livestock in this day and age. First to say that I'm NOT a bleeding heart veggie animal activist but I do have a large amount of experience in this area.

My main concerns with using creatures in this way is that one of the major ways to stress an animal is to transport it. This is PARTICULARLY the case with birds and I see no validity in rattling a small flock of doves around in the boot of a car for the sake of entertainment. Doesn't matter how well they're trained/acclimatised it will upset them.

MagicDiscoMan said that it was unlikely to have a bird die in the middle of a trick, meaning that it does happen occasionally. Why does this happen? Because they're stressed out and have a heart attack.

I'm quite sure that the vast majority of magis who use livestock care agreat deal about their charges, but it's such a sensitive and emotive area that I don't see the point. There are so many other brilliant effects around. Why complicate it by having something that might snuff it or cause a spec to shout abuse at you?

Sorry for the rant.

MagicDiscoMan said that it was unlikely to have a bird die in the middle of a trick, meaning that it does happen occasionally. Why does this happen? Because they're stressed out and have a heart attack.

doves are very hardy dirds not like your budgies and finches, thier more like pigeons.
still age gets to us all and i mentioned the death part because if you intend to use doves then eventualy you are going to come across this eventuality and if you cant deal with death get out of the live stock business.

who has not gone to a gig and found old fluffy toes up in the cage just before a set, i,m not into animals now but i did some dove work in the past when it was the thing to do and it was ok but times change.

MagicDiscoMan,
Wasn't having a direct go at you there, just making a point. I'm aware that doves are among the hardier creatures, but they still suffer from stress (as do pigeons) and DO occasionally die suddenly as a result of transport-related stress. As you say times change

Interesting thread...

The ethics involved in certain aspects of 'entertainment' are unfortunately marred by tradition.

It is a strange thing indeed to produce rabbits from a hat... but it's traditional. In fact, as far as 'animal magic', apart from the legendary Johnny Morris (what a guy!), you've got people like Siegfried and Roy - who made a career out of using live animals - but, respectfully, to their disadvantage ultimately.

They do say that you can't tame nature. Neither can you predict or pre-empt the effects of confining an animal for transport, or indeed for use in performance.

It is a tradition for a magician to use doves and rabbits - but I agree that a Goshie Sponge Rabbit could be even more amusing, not to mention safer and easier to produce...

But the sheer beauty of producing doves, especially LOTS of doves, is something that I'm afraid is just part of the magic tradition - and although I fully agree with Fletch's comments, I can't say that I don't find a well performed appearing dove routine something which is both beautiful and mystifying.

But I do NOT condone animal cruelty - and I agree that there must be some form of discomfort or disagreeability in the way that the creatures are handled.

But, I guess until someone learns to emulate Dr Dolittle, we may never know... perhaps they enjoy it???

I'm sure some doves have a leather fetish and some prefer latex or pvc straps

dont worry youd have to go a long way to offend me, dove work is long tediouse and prohibatively expensive unless you are already an upper class pigeon fancier then my advice would be to leave it well alone, its not worth the agro from the birds (thats both kinds) and the kids.

anyway you try and get doves bread for magic its almost imposible to get the correct pedigree thease days, dove breaders are rockafellers like horse breaders its just not worth the agro realy.

really interesting thread here, I worked with 2 doves a few years ago and it was great, but you really do have to love them. You cannot get them to train just to do tricks, you have to respect and love them as you would any normal pet. The magic should just be a bonus. Nonetheless, there is nothing more beautiful than being able to produce a dove. They really are something special. I don't work with them now, they died and the only thing I ever used them for was kids parties as they'd be locked up for the least time, but I have learned that they don't bring anything 'extra' to the show, it should be me that makes the show, not them. There are enough great tricks around to compensate. But, I'd say if you've got the care and attention and high respect for animals that they deserve, then go for it, just don't go stuffing them down your sleve the forst time you get them to sit still. You may never train them well enough and you have to be prepared for the fact that they'll never go in a show. My friend breeds them and he only uses 4 out of loads that he has as the others aren't trained well enough
Liam

I heard a story a couple of years ago about a magician who was doing a kids party and was using doves. At one point in his routein he go a box of kleenex tisues and one by on started tossing a tissue in the air untill after a couple of times he was producing doves from the box instead o tisues.
This was going splendidly untill he was about to retreive another dove from the box and saw it was all limp and most likely dead.
Not being one to upsett the childrean he continued to take the dove out of the box ,wipe his nose with it and stuff it in his inside pocket. Amazingly noone noticed and the show went on as normal.

How quick thinking and profesional.