talkmagic.co.uk

The Effect Fournier Marked Deck (Poker)



Cost £8.50 from The Card Collection



Difficulty
Depends on the exact effect you want to perform, but I would mark 2 for difficulty (at the very least) because some thought needs to be given to routining so as not to arouse suspicion.
(1=easy to do, 2=No sleights, but not so easy, 3=Some sleights used,
4=Advanced sleights used, 5=Suitable for experienced magicians only)



Review
I very nearly embarrassed myself on opening the jiffy bag that this deck came in. I ordered them on recommendation from the dealer that this was 'the best marked deck that we stock'. I don't own any other marked decks and I wasn't sure how they would be marked so I sent off my order and waited.

I was immediately suspicious when I opened the bag and found a deck in an ordinary box (no suggestion that it was a special deck) and my fears were 'confirmed' when I took the cards out and had a good look at them. I couldn't for the life of me see any markings. So, I was just on the verge of making an irate phone call when I remembered the 'riffle test'. Someone told me that a pretty reliable way of spotting a marked deck was to riffle them face-down and watch the backs for movement. Sure enough, there it was and once I'd seen the marks I couldn't believe that I hadn't spotted them sooner. Once you know what you're looking for they're very easily readable from more than 6 feet away, but I haven't once been called on this deck in use. Essentially the markings used are very close to the Boris Wild system with the positioning adapted for the back design of the Fournier cards. There are slight differences between these and the BW system for some cards and these are most definitely improvements. The markings are very deceptive and while they won't stand up to severe scrutiny (and certainly not fast card company) the routines you use with this kind of deck should be designed to take the heat off the cards (a 'trick' like "Pick a card. Put it back in. It was the seven of diamonds!" will have people looking for marks in no time). One thing I should mention is that the marks are factory printed and so the wear problems associated with DIY BW and TL decks aren't a worry.

So, the marks are clear and easy to read but more than deceptive enough to stand up to the casual handling that they should be getting, so what about the cards themselves? They're actually very good quality. The printing is bang-on centered (which is more than most of the Bikes I've bought recently have been), the edges are properly trimmed and the stock is slightly stiffer than Bikes. Not suitable for manipulations really but then you wouldn't want to. The surfaces are smooth and flat as opposed to the linen-type air-cushion finish you find on Bikes and Bees. They're excellent cards, but a bit different to what most people will be used to most of the time.

That brings me on to what most people will see as the biggest problem with this deck; they're not Bikes, are they? I don't see that as much of a problem myself. I've bought a couple of standard Fournier decks for situations where I may want to switch and I've always found the argument that 'people are used to seeing Bikes' as pretty irrelevant in the UK because 90% of the people who buy Bikes here are magicians. Whether it's these, Bikes or Bees I've never had spectators get curious about the make of cards that I'm using. The only comments I ever get along these lines are about how wide my (poker) cards look.

In value terms they're pretty pricey I suppose but you only need one of these, and the fact that they're factory printed means that they're going to last longer than a DIY job.


Overall
This is IMO a good quality deck with everything you could want from a marked deck. If a marked deck is what you want then think carefully about whether you do really have to have Bikes before passing these up.

Thanks for that, one thing which is puzzling me, doesn't it come with instructions?

No, it doesn't. Which is what had me puzzled for a while. Once you've seen the marks it's all obvious but locating them in the first place is tricky (which is kind of the idea!). It doesn't help that the top card of the deck is a joker when you first take it out of the box. You can hunt for the marks on that one all day because the jokers ain't marked!
As I said though, a quick riffle reveals all.

Thanks for that, one thing which is puzzling me, doesn't it come with instructions?

Toad - most modern magic marked decks don't need instructions as the markings are straight forward enough to read without any help. As long as you know where to look for the markings that is.

I'm not sure you'd be able to read them from 6 feet away though - I mean I'd probably have problems reading the face of the card from that distance

I use the Ted Lesley marking system - which did come with a book - but not of instructions just ideas for some strong tricks and much discussion on do's and don'ts.

As Charles mentioned in his review you actually have to be careful not to do anything too impossible otherwise you are pretty much admitting you are using a marked deck.

I now find that I am only accused of using a marked deck when I am using an ordianry one - which is obviously a nice state to be in, although I have had one person check for the markings in my TL deck and not find them (phew), which just goes to show how sneaky and invisible these things are. (Thank goodness that the average Joe doesn't know to do the "Riffle" test.

I often carry the marked deck around and use it with non marked deck tricks, and then If I need to I also have many more options at my finger tips.

I suspect that the actual Fournier method is similar to the TL which I already know is similar to the BW.

The one big advantage I can see of the Fournier Deck is that the markings are permanent - with the TL and BW decks you normally have to mark them yourselves and they do wear down after awhile.

In saying that there are of course obvious advantages to using Bike cards so that would go against the Fournier system - but really too many of us get hung up with just using Bikes all the time.

In my opinion, marked decks have there place in magic - but I don't think we should rely that heavily on them and definitely we should be very careful what tricks we use them for. Thats where the TL book was very useful as it gives some of the psychology behind it.

bananafish wrote: <snip>I suspect that the actual Fournier method is similar to the TL which I already know is similar to the BW.

<and snip>

In my opinion, marked decks have there place in magic - but I don't think we should rely that heavily on them and definitely we should be very careful what tricks we use them for. Thats where the TL book was very useful as it gives some of the psychology behind it.

I must be honest and say that I've never actually seen a TL marked deck, but after I got this deck I bought the BW notes to get some ideas for using it. As I understood it the chief difference between TL & BW was that TL decks are effectively one-way whereas BW decks are not. The Fournier, like the BW, is symmetrical and can be read at either end, but IMO the court card markings are better.

As to your last comment I was hoping that the Wild notes would have some general stuff about psychology, but they don't. Maybe I should do a separate review when I have time. (I'll look to see if one's been done first). As you say, too much reliance on a single method (any method) is a bad thing. When used sparingly though the marked deck can be devastating. I'm experimenting using it with the Osterlind stack at the moment, but I think it might be an over-egging scenario!

Actually I did think about using it with the Osterlinds BCS, but it differs slightly from say Si Stebbins system, and this difference actually creates a few problems when using with marked cards.

Funny that I've just seen this thread and was just reading thru my Boris Wild notes by coincidence. Or maybe you planned it that way?


I love the BW Deck which I made up myself about 2 years ago and are still going strong. The markings are perfect and I can't fault them. On the rare occasion that someone suspects I'm using some kind of markings (although they usually do when I'm not using a marked deck.) I won't give them the whole deck - they might do the riffle - but if I give them one card, for not too long mind, they won't see anything. And then I say, These are Bicycle Cards. Everyone uses them. And they stop looking.

What would be the benefit of using these or the Fournier with the Breakthrough system. The great thing about the system is that you don't look at the back of the cards. I use the peek in the box and they don't even see that. Would using a marked deck just defeat the purpose?

What would be the benefit of using these or the Fournier with the Breakthrough system. The great thing about the system is that you don't look at the back of the cards. I use the peek in the box and they don't even see that. Would using a marked deck just defeat the purpose?

Mostly I agree with that and so far I love everything I do with a straight forward BCS deck, but there are numerous tricks that make use of using a marked deck with a stacked deck. I know there are some for instance mentioned in the booklet that came with the TL system.

As to whether they are in fact any better than pure BCS magic I wouldn't like to say at present, but it does give you even more options and that cant be a bad thing.

Shark Trager wrote: "What would be the benefit of using these or the Fournier with the Breakthrough system?"

Combining a stack and a marking system opens up loads of options, just imagine how much cleaner everything would be if you didn't need to make a peek at all!
Stacking and marking make for very strong magic individually - but put them together and you get something worth more than the sum of its parts.
Once you start to play with the combination of ideas you'll find yourself coming up with heaps of handlings, effects and routines (I did anyway).

Just wanted to add my praise for the Fournier marked deck. It's readymade so you don't get some of the one-ahead options which come from marking your own deck - but the markings are clear whilst remaining invisible (yes it's a contradiction in terms, but you know what I mean...)
And as Mr Calthrop (or should I call you the Jackal?) points out, it's worth having a couple of matching decks.

Just some thoughts,
Mathew.

Combining a stack and a marking system opens up loads of options, just imagine how much cleaner everything would be if you didn't need to make a peek at all!

isnt this the point in having a marked deck in the first place??

Combining a stack and a marking system opens up loads of options, just imagine how much cleaner everything would be if you didn't need to make a peek at all!

I agree with Mog. In most cases there is no point in using a marked deck AND a stacked deck if all you are achieving iis what you could have done with just either one of them.

Where using both comes in handy is if for example you get the spectator to name a number between 1 and 10, then get them to cut the deck and count 10 cards down from the top. This way it would seem very fair - and the only card you would need to glimpse is the back of the cut to card.

But quite frankly - why make things difficult? Just let the stack do the work, a good peek (imo) isn't that difficult to achieve after all...

Sometimes I think we get over paranoid about what is obvious.

Bananafish and Mog:
You're right of course, perhaps it just suits my style, which is very 'hands-off' when I use cards.
Getting a peek is no probs, but having a card selected while your back is turned and naming it without ever handling the pack really freaks people out!
And having a spec cut off a chunk of the deck and hide it in his hands before I instantly tell him exactly how many cards he holds has played fairly strongly too.

But maybe that's just me...

Mathew.

And having a spec cut off a chunk of the deck and hide it in his hands before I instantly tell him exactly how many cards he holds has played fairly strongly

Thats a fair point and a good example of where a simple stack and a marked deck could be used very well together. (makes note to try that one).

Mind you it would be a bit of a bu**er with Osterlinds BCS.

On the whole though I would say you were fairly limited with strong tricks that actually require both.