Thoughts on starting coin magic

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Thoughts on starting coin magic

Postby Steverino » Mar 6th, '06, 00:10



Just some thoughts on beginning coin magic - based on me messing around with stuff for a while, and finding out what works for me. I have fairly big hands btw, so that probably affects my opinions on sizes etc.

Bobo's Modern coin magic is always given as the standard reference book for coin workers, and is pretty much essential as a reference, but for actually learning techniques, I have found videos to be much clearer and faster modern alternative. Lots of good stuff available, but for beginner, Michael Ammar's Coin Magic is excellent, and for slightly more advanced/complex material, Sankey's Revolutionary coin magic has a lot to offer. Worth checking out is the Bobo community project, which looks like it will make learning from Bobo considerably easier as the reference videos continue to expand.

Types of coins to use:

A lot of routines have been developed for use with US coins. Many excellent non-US magicians seem to use US coins, but if you're one of the stroppy people like me, who prefer to use UK coins, then this info might help.

10p pieces:
When routines call for US quarter dollars, you can fairly safely use UK 10p pieces, they are nearly identical size (10p coins are slightly larger diameter, and slightly thicker). They are generally similar for concealments and vanishes.

Various aardvarks are available for this coin, including Butter coin, ES, and flippers.

Interestingly, a large percentage of 10p pieces seem to have been minted in 1992, and while these are gradually being replaced or topped up with newer coins, when you see an older 10p, you're on a good chance that it's going to be a 1992, this could be a useful mini mentalism addition to a trick, and it also means that when you're getting aardvarks, you may be better off requesting 1992 coins if possible, so that you can easily get a matching set - some tricks need relatively large numbers of coins (Michael Ammar does a nice simple routine with 8 coins). It's as well to have a matching set handy if you aren't planning on borrowing.

One other thing to note with the 10p piece, is that some of the older ones seem to have a different edge profile, which can significantly affect handling if you have sweaty hands :oops:. It doesn't seem to be wear and tear related, and isn't specific to any years, but generally avoid the ones with curved edge profile (_____) , in favour of the square edged variants [_____] - the curved edge ones have a much shallower milling on the edges which seems to make them slip out more easily :shock: .
Nit picky, yes - but if you're getting a set together specifically for magic, you may as well get the best and easiest to work with.

£2 coin:
Can be swapped in when a routine calls for a half dollar. The sizes are not exact, but they palm quite well. The silver coloured centre flashes quite well for retention vanishes and the like.

Disadvantages are that there are limited aardvarks available for the £2. I have only seen an ES available, and aardvark makers I have enquired wirth seemed to think that making custom stuff with the £2 would be difficult (and therefore I assume rather expensive).

50p coin
Again, can be swapped in for half dollars, if you can live with the non milled edges, and freaky shape (I mean why 7 sides ferpetesake?). Bitten ardvarks are available

2p coin
Could be swapped in for half dollars. Not too bad for palming, despite smooth edges. Limited aardvarks (if any?)

£1 coin
Bit silly for general coin work IMO, but there are a few good aardvarks...
relatively difficult to get any kind of matching sets, as they seem to tarnish in unpredictable way, and there have been so many different designs over the years.

£5 coin
This is a goodie. It's about the size of a US dollar (maybe a bit bigger), and is surprisingly easy to palm with it's well milled edges - despite the considerable weight. You may need larger hands to work easily with these, but the sheer size means a bit of a surprise when you produce them. I wouldn't like to try to palm more than one of these at a time though, because of the weight, and they have a slight tendency to be noisy.

No aardvarks generally available as far as I know, and being not generally circulated, they aren't instantly recognisable, but given their weight, impressive size, and detail (Queen's head etc), they are clearly 100% genuine UK coins when people examine them. (and did I mention, they are huge! :)

The Royal Mint issue a set of these every now and then, and they are available from coin collectors shops etc, or from royalmint.com at face value.

Small coins (5p/1p/20p)
Generally worth avoiding for people with large hands I reckon. They're more difficult to work with, have non milled edges, and aren't visually very impressive. Limited aardvark potential

Euros:
Lots of aardvarks available, and some good sized coins too, but I haven't used them much, as they aren't so relevant in the UK... yet :evil:

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Coins

Postby DrTodd » Mar 8th, '06, 18:47

Bobo is good, but I really like David Roth's stuff. His book is excellent, especially the Okito Box stuff. I also learned a lot of great sleights from Gibson's Complete Illustrated Book on Close-up Magic (good Miser's Dream in this book as well).

As for coins, I like the half crown, which is about the same size as a US half dollar and is weighty, which means it sounds good when doing coins across, and any think that uses a click pass or multiple classic palm.

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Re: Coins

Postby Steverino » Mar 8th, '06, 19:06

DrTodd wrote:Bobo is good, but I really like David Roth's stuff. His book is excellent, especially the Okito Box stuff. I also learned a lot of great sleights from Gibson's Complete Illustrated Book on Close-up Magic (good Miser's Dream in this book as well).


Roth's material seems to be considered pretty much a modern classic. Embarrassingly, I haven't seen much of his work, but lots of people reference him. Definitely on my must see list

I haven't done much with the Okito box, other than the fairly standard coins through hand type thing. Dan Watkins does some interesting stuff with the box, reversing the effect so that the coins stay on the hand, and the box passes through, vanishes and other stuff like that. My technique with it isn't really good enough for that sort of thing yet.

DrTodd wrote:As for coins, I like the half crown, which is about the same size as a US half dollar and is weighty, which means it sounds good when doing coins across, and any think that uses a click pass or multiple classic palm.


I had a stack of old half crowns somewhere, and found them to be a good size to use, but seem to have lost them.

My main aim with using UK coins is to be able to work with stuff that people will recognise as currency though, so that pretty much rules out old currency. Obviously that's the main weak point of the £5 crown coin too though.

I must admit though, despite my predisposition to UK coins, I found a half dollar in a box of junk the other day, and it is absolutely the perfect size to work with - so much easier to manipulate. exactly the same size as the old english penny, but with a milled edge.

mutter mutter... Royal mint. why can't they redesign the 50p to be that size and shape...

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coins

Postby DrTodd » Mar 9th, '06, 13:18

Roth has a good coins across-ish routine with the Okito, which uses some really nice false counts and other sleights.

I also use silver half dollars, which look great. Again, out of circulation, but look and sound very magical.

I like collecting coin whenever I travel. I got some great Mongolian coins with Kar Marx on one side! :D

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Postby Johndoe » Mar 9th, '06, 15:22

I have managed to convert Bobo into a PDF file (don't worry it's out of Copywrite) complete with jumpable chapters and eveything is linked so you can mocve between tricks and find sleights instantly.

I've found it very useful for scanning through whilst at work.

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Postby fender91 » Mar 9th, '06, 23:51

great link for coin magic
www.coinvanish.com

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Postby Larry » Mar 10th, '06, 09:40

the other advantage of the five pound coin (i've found) is that people are always impressed by anything involving large amounts of money, or things they don't see very often. try doing a bill switch from a five to a ten, note reactions, then to different people do it from a five to a fifty and see how much more impressed they'll be!

i'll also note Ammar's - complete intro to coin magic, as it is pretty much the visual basics of Mr Bobo's so excellent book

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Postby MagicJosh_2006 » Mar 11th, '06, 17:02

Coin Magic By Jay Sankey Is Cool Too !

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Chinese coins

Postby Caligari » Oct 29th, '06, 19:52

Thanks for this Steverino. As a newbie to this with a particular interest in coin tricks this is especially useful.

My own thoughts (for what they're worth) is that you should ordinarily try to use the most common coins in your particular location. So, while 10p pieces might be more difficult to handle than half dollars, the trick's effect is much better in the UK with the 10p. And in any case, practising will eventually iron out initial fumbles and mishaps.

Anyway, slightly contradicting what I have just said, I think it is sometimes nice to introduce coins from other places to give tricks that exotic touch. I have books with tricks featuring the Chinese coins with the hole in the middle and would like to try them (I know that I could use washers, but that's just not the same). Does anybody know of anywhere doing good quality real or replica Chinese currency?

Last edited by Caligari on Oct 29th, '06, 20:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mccabe24 » Oct 29th, '06, 20:22

I was acctually going to do one of these threads but you beat me to it :wink: . I just want to stress how great retention vanishes and sleeving are. These both loose apeal to many begining coin magicians, but they are great. Don't think an effect where only one hand is shown empty is any good? Work on your presentation and you will devistate the audience. Plus, there are sleights that you can use to show both hands empty. And for sleeving, give it a try. I used to ignore anything that involved sleeving, but now, sleeving is the basis of many of my effects. Sleeving is just as much of a skill as palming and is one of the most versitile sleights you can do with coins. What is the best and safest way to make a coin vanish? Get rid of it! Be sure to give the chapters on sleeving and vanishes a good look-over!

Note: Most of this post is refering to Bobo's Modern Coin Magic. If you are interested in coin magic, YOU NEED THIS BOOK!!!!!

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Postby Farlsborough » Oct 30th, '06, 18:18

I'm just getting more into coin work, but I actually think it's one of the hardest fields of magic to amaze with. You really have to do something special for it to rise above "smartarsery"!

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Postby Kolisar » Oct 31st, '06, 02:27

I would recommend David Roth's Expert Coin Magic and Richard Kaufman's Coin Magic. Both have clear explainations and illustrations.

Also, and I know this may be obvious but I will say it anyways, a mirror. I find a mirror an invaulable tool when practicing vanishes.

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cultural Xchange

Postby Atomo » Oct 31st, '06, 13:08

Once you feel comfortable with the basic sleights, and want to move on to more advanced effects, i would definatly reccommend Cultural Xchange 1&2 (DVD) by Shoot Ogowa and Apollo Robbins.
Im suprised that i havn't seen this mentioned very much on this site, because franky the material they perform makes alot of other well regarded texts seem rather backwards in their presentation. For example, Apollo's Trinity coin routine is abolutely KILLER, a coin vanishes and then changes in the most visual way possible, it looks like real magic! Also worth the study is Shoots Neo Purse Frame, this routine looks insane!!!!!!! like special efffects, is does contain some more advanced sleights (Muscle Pass) but belive me, master this and you will have a heavy hitting weapon of mass amazement at your disposal.

The way Shoot thinks about magic is truly inpiring, his psychology is advanced and brave, i would describe him as the Ninja of coin magic.
One peice of advice that i have for anyone who wishes to learn the muscle pass is to glue a couple of £2 coins together with super glue, and practice for 2 weeks with that, then try it with just one.....pop! you will be suprised!
that tip is mentioned very breifly by Shoot in cultural xchange one, but is an excellent training method.

Cultural Xchange - get it!!!

Alos, Anytime Anywhere by Jay Sankey has alot good material for when you are with friends and want to perfom improptu, i especially like his focus on the dates of coins, subtle but strong ideas.

Oh, now you got me started, another staple of mine is penny through ashtray using a Coin Unique. I wont go into handling details here obviously, but using a glass ashtray, and the 'unique properties' of eddie gibsons creation you can acheive what i belive to be one of the strongest effects going with coins, start and end clean!!!!!! clink- coin visually goes through the ashtray with a shake, everything examinable. Play with it, think about the method, you will have a little miracle. my hot tip is to us a thin glass ashtray about 10cm in diameter. PM me if you want the 'Real Work' on this effect.

Safe Atomo

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Postby myuserid » Oct 31st, '06, 13:17

Where is the Bobo community project located? I would love to take a look.

Cheers-

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Postby Caligari » Nov 3rd, '06, 17:53

The Bobo Community Project can be found at:

http://kavalsky.net:3834/OpenBobo/

but as with all these things, you'd better expect to show your knowledge before being able to enter.

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