talkmagic.co.uk

Craig Browning wrote:The Laser Cutting was designed by Andrew Mayne and sold to David as an exclusive peice. My recommendation is that you just walk away and don't even try.

I believe it was created by Steve Fearson and then sold to Copperfield.

Yep, think about all of the work thats needs to go into a show like David Copperfield's, its obvious thats he's not doing it all by himself.
Imagine if you had the money that David Copperfield has, and you had payed for the performance rights for a illusion of this kind, even Steve Fearson cannot perform this illusion publicy.

Copperfield is known for this illusion throughout the world, if someone else was to perform this on some kind of television special, people would think that Copperfield isn't original and is performing a trick made by somebody else.

Imagine it like this, if magicians went around performing the same tricks, they just wouldn't be magicians.

Copperfield's method of stopping magicians perform it may be harsh, but you really wouldn't some magician performing your trick that you payed lots to perform and dedicated to yourself.

I´m wondering if someone uploads an exact copy of the laser illusion on yotube, how on earth is DC gonna find you?.
I´m not interested on big illusions because I only love manipulative magic and extreme manipulation so I won´t be doing what I write here lol.
I´m from Argentina so if a magician performs "the Laser" on a theather (a big one) I´M SURE DC WILL HAVE NO IDEA about it.
So all those laws and copyrights are fine but sounds like a way to scare magicians but nothing else.
LOL in fact I know an argentine magician that performed that illusion on TV several times and nothing happened yet.......I´m still waiting if something happens now that I read this thread LOL.

Copyright laws aren't there to scare people - they're in place to protect the owners and creators.

Because it's difficult to find someone, and because he may not have heard of it - does that make the situation right, Mefistofeles?

I wonder - would your indifference remain if someone stole something you created?

Nothing makes the situation right. What that magician did, is not fine. I´m not saying that is good to steal tricks or ideas but those laws seem to be very unpractical.
And I know there are people that stole ideas of mines several times and I cannot do anything about it, so that´s something that I have to live with.

Fortunatelly, that people were friends of mine so I know where and how to find them but I´m not gonna do anything about it. They are pathetic because they cannot create their own stuff so that´s why they steal.
Now, I don´t trust on anyone so I keep my ideas very protected.

Sorry about my last post but it´s true, it´s impossible to stop the thieves.

Mefistofeles wrote:Nothing makes the situation right. What that magician did, is not fine. I´m not saying that is good to steal tricks or ideas but those laws seem to be very unpractical.
And I know there are people that stole ideas of mines several times and I cannot do anything about it, so that´s something that I have to live with.

Fortunatelly, that people were friends of mine so I know where and how to find them but I´m not gonna do anything about it. They are pathetic because they cannot create their own stuff so that´s why they steal.Now, I don´t trust on anyone so I keep my ideas very protected.

Sorry about my last post but it´s true, it´s impossible to stop the thieves.

For starters you need to brighten up a bit and show the world you have more than two mis-firing brain-cells... the red colored sections in your post show where you have exceptionally poor communication skills and for reason of rebellion or lack of self-application in school, you seem to not know how to use words properly and in a manner that would warrant respect. Learning to do such will get you moving in the right direction but there is much more to this issue...

... I'll bet that none of your tricks were ever published or if they were constructed, you never had blue-prints drawn up and submitted for patents and other modes of legal regestration and protection. For this reason anything your discuss with "your friends" or anyone, can be "borrowed" and other "less honest" folks can and will (and do) put their name on such things and go through the legal as well as social processes required for validating and protecting what's now become their property. This is a lesson I learned the hard way, trusting "my friends" and being exceptionally open about about techniques and ideas.

In fact, I have something being investigated right now that a major personality may have "borrowed" that belongs to me that was published in a back issue of TOP HAT a couple of years back and is very similar to something he performed. These things happen but we also have instances in which two people come up with very similar (nearly identical) ideas and technology without ever having contact with one another. One such device is what is known as the Harary-Whitaker Table in that Franz created the original table (one of a kind) that no one at Creative Illusions was aware of at the time and yet Ken Whitaker and I came up with three variations to the same basic principle... not stolen or deliberately replicated but because of independent creation there are no hard feelings.

BEFORE YOU ASK... this is not the same thing as we have been discussing i.e. creating your own version to an effect or routine after you've seen it done. Independent Creation is rare but happens. It entails a totally blind set of situations where it is impossible for the parties involved to have any kind of connection or insight into what the other is doing.

The other thing that I find confounding, is that you complain about how your friends are to lazy to come up with their own stuff and yet, you keep trying find out why you aren't allowed to copy the Copperfield effect... just seems a bit peculiar to me...

I never said I wanted to copy anything, that´s why I think "my friends" are a shame. The only one thing they know is to copy so I´M NOT agree with violating the laws or copyrights.

I don´t care a s...t about big illusions I´m not related to them at all because I just like manipulation.
I DO understand why Copperfield illusions can´t be duplicated and I will not even think about making a f...ing body s..ll or whatever is its name because the trick is totally unpractical without a great stage production just like every big illusion.
I just like the "pack small but place big" props and that doesn´t make me inferior.

Thanks for understanding my posts, I would like to see how´s your spanish on a "spanish lenguaje" forum. Did you know that in Argentina we speak spanish?
I do have a great school education and respect but I´m a human being and I do have mistakes like everybody else.

You're not exactly helping your argument when you resort to cursing, mefistofeles. You've made some fair points - but try to keep it civil.

I'll have to side on both of you when it comes to him being civil or not. In his introduction he stated that he was from Argentina and that English is of course not his first language and apologized for any misspelling he may/may not make (something along those lines). If Craig (Craig, I mean no offence to you but feel that this should be pointed out) would have read his introductory post (we always indirectly force people to make them out of respect to the forum so I always assumed that we should at least read their introductions out of respect to them) then there would have been no mix up about his age. Imagine you were his age with a high education, you point out that English is not your first language, but get insulted (I would conisider what you posted an insult; an unneeded comment at the least) and called a child with a bad education; what would you have done and said? I am not a fan of swearing, and I do not condone his actions but I do understand them. I mean no offence to you Craig, I just felt that this should be pointed out.


As for this effect...speechless even though I can think of a few impracticle ideas. Even though, I would never use this effect unless I was "as big" as Copperfield because I do not want a reputation like...."Hey! He's the guy who made me puke!" but something more along the lines "I saw this guy's trick on stage, he got split in half by a laser."


~David

Acutally, if the person in question would simply fill out their form and include where they are located I would have have known. I don't read all the intros in that most are "hi, I'm here and i do magic"... Knowing now that he's from a Spanish speaking country (which is also known for it's Italian and German speaking folks as well) I can forgive some of the language issues... with no way other than going over to the intro forum as to where he was from... hey, I just assumed he was from the UK or the US like most around here.

I still don't understand why someone not interested in grand illusion would have brought up the idea of copying or having the right to copy this particular effect.

lol you´re gonna kill me. I´m not interested on copy or get the licence to duplicate other people big illusions. In fact I don´t like to copy anything because it sucks. That´s why I talked about those people that stole ideas of mine. I hate when someone steels something from me so that´s why I don´t agree with violating the laws.

Anyway when I first saw this thread I went "come on guys. Don´t you think you´re taking the law/copyrights too seriously ?"
I mean I would like to protect my tricks/ideas with something but there always gonna be people steeling and I´m not gonna realice about that. So the laws are not 100% sure. Think about P2P sharing, there are a lot of illegal videos on internet and is not easy to stop them. So no law is enought. But I´m not happy with that because it a very sad thing.

Anyways, sorry if I ofended you with my other posts lol was not my intention.

Peace.

You're probably right but sadly some of the builders and bigger named designers here in the states started making things like this a big issue back in the late 1970s... a good portion of it being triggered a few years previous as Jim Sommer's introduced the Zig Zag to this country and everyone got up-set in that it was "Harbins"... kind of funny how they ignored how much stuff Mr. Harbin "borrowed" from Percy Abbott and others in the day and later placed his name on... but you see, Mr. H was part of the "IN" crowd of the day where as Percy Abbott would tell you to go to hell if he didn't care for you much and at least one of the poeple I know of that got hurt by Harbin's borrowing of ideas was of the ilk to nail your trap doors shut or have you rolled.

Magic has changed and not all for the better. In the act of trying to seem more honorable and "legit" we've created a readily ignored caste-like situation via which "the innocent" (as I call them) get lynched for doing some of the least intrusive things... so yes, it has gotten rediculous but then Americans love to make money however they can, as quickly as they can, and exploiting the law as they can so as to screw over the little guy.

Thirty years ago if you wanted an big illusion you price shopped all the big shops and unless quality and image were an major issue to you, the chances were strong you'd end up with a Chalet, Abbott or Tannen version of whatever. I can assure you Chuck Jones never saw a dime from the Mismade Ladies that were so highly prized over the years and if there are only 150 Zig Zags on the planet I'm a monkey's uncle (legally you could only have a Zig Zag or any of Harbin's effects if you owned the book of which only 150 copies went out.)

Ken Whitaker, the man that invented the Impalement, Dove in Light Bulb and several other key bits long prior to the start of his Creative Illusions company, was going hungry even though there are hundreds if not a few thousand versions of his tricks out there that he's never made a penny on and certain west coast builders has attempted to claim innovation of... Ken was the brains behind it, the torch, light bulb through girl and together he and I created the first slow motion water spout penetration as well... but that's another tale altogether. My point is, Kenny was part of the "IN" crowd e.g. he got screwed when it came to royalties, etc.

Some day there might actually be some kind of "standard" set around all of this. Personally I feel that it's gotten overly complicated and cut-throat.