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I have been seriously been studying mentalism sence after christmas however I am becoming more serious about mentalism. I have been reading everything I can from the internet and from the book I bought 'Practical Mental Magic' by Theodore Annemann that book is amazing my mom thought it was expensive it cost me 15 dollars and I had a gift card so it wasn't that bad at all with all the information you get inside however I have came along the topic of NLP I know there are alot of books on it so I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction for a starter book under that subject that could help me as a performer. Just so you know I am very new to this subject. Thanks if anyone can answer my questions.

I wouldn't even go near NLP for a good couple of years. It would be like trying to fly a jumbo jet before you have even learnt to walk!
And you would probably be very disapointed with it anyway. Keep reading the types of book that you already are.

I have replied to the same question on another forum. I recommend Derren Brown's book "Tricks of the Mind" - there is a sensible section on NLP.

Barry

Ditto.

I absolutely agree with Andy - when you do come to it, Wonder Words is probably the best place to start with regards to its application to magic and mentalism.

I've never quite understood performers obesession with NLP really. The field of psychology is so rich and diverse and, IMO, a serious study of it would be more beneficial.

Cardza wrote:I've never quite understood performers obesession with NLP really. The field of psychology is so rich and diverse and, IMO, a serious study of it would be more beneficial.

I agree 100% with that!

NLP seems to be one of the fads that is popular at the moment both in mentalism and as a new wave alternative cure all. Read D Browns book as recommended, and some general stuff on psychology to get you started. Even 13 steps will give a good insight to the importance and use of language as a tool to manipulate people's actions and thoughts.

Most of this stuff is just really looking at what we all do subconciously, making note of it and then applying it to our own ends, in other words linguistic suggestion,

A//

Thanks for the information and the advice. I will stick to the advice given to me. I will work my way up to the next thing which will be thirteen steps to mentalism thanks for all your guys help. It really does help me make good decisions and not do something really stupid with my money. thank you very much.

I've come in the other direction. I've been into NLP for a while and have only recently been found by magic and mentalism.

NLP is a collection of completely separate techniques and theory gathered together and hyped over and over again. Some of the techniques I think are very strong, some are questionable and some are complete rubbish.

Most of the people into NLP act like they are selling timeshare. This means that it gets a really bad press by most independent observers.

Getting certification is more based on the money you pay out than an understanding of the material. This is a real problem because it can be very powerful and if not used correctly and responsibly it can really mess people up. Like everything you have to be prepared to work at it before you can do anything constructive with it

Having said all that I'd recommend the NLP for Dummies book as a starter book. It actually contains most of the practical stuff covered by NLP and assumes you know nothing. This will tell you what it is about and how to do it... The sections on 'Rapport' and 'Anchors' are particularly relevent to performing in general.

yeah, NLP for Dummies is a great little book (tenner or so from amazon)...

bandler and co. are all at loggerheads of late aren't they?!

wasnt/isnt there some kind of lawsuit going on between them all?

I don't know of any new litigation, but the history of the ownership of NLP was covered in lawsuits. Appearances are that both Grinder and Bandler are not particularly nice people. It has always looked to be "about the money".

Some have alleged that they have merely whored other peoples research and ideas. (As others have said, there is not that much in NLP that hasn't appeared in some form or other in previous research). However the "happy clappy", "born again", "show me the money" brigades that shroud NLP do mask some quite insightful stuff.

I read the section in Tricks of the Mind then more and begun to understand what a wooly, evangelical world of self appointed massiahs it really is.

xpyre wrote:However the "happy clappy", "born again", "show me the money" brigades that shroud NLP do mask some quite insightful stuff.

Indeed. The meta model is probably going to be the easiest to digest for magic; the old deletions distortions and generalisations.

That is very tru Tomo.

Like I said the Rapport and Anchors stuff is useful too. I use it all the time in dealing with people.

Pacing and leading is essential stuff when doing mentalism. Everyone does it (even if they don't call it that). This is just a way of understanding what you are doing and why it works.

Anchors are really good at getting extra emotional response to a series of effects. You set an anchor on any great responses early on and then just trigger it again later. It sort of adds the reponse to the first effect to the response to the second effect. Wonderful when it comes off...

agreed, bandler and grinder aren't completely reliable sources ...its kind of a challenge shifting through what's bs and what is truly a useful tool.

I have never primarily focused on nlp due to the fact that it truly is such a complicated instrument, that wont always pay off in the fashion folks like Bandler and Grinder advertise. There is always the chance to insert the usage of nlp in acts of mentalism, but not always will it be correct ...or even useful.

On the subject of Bandler and Grinder, I would recommend (for any working magician/mentalist looking to put a stunt to their performance) to check out Bandler and Grinders "Patterns of the Hypnotic Techniques of Milton H. Erickson vol. 1" (vol 2 is nearly three times as thick as it should be, thanks to Bandler and Grinder's hunger to use completely ridiculous terms just for the hell of sounding scholarly)

BUT Milton is one of the most important contributors to nlp, if not THE original contributor to the concept, and I feel like all of his most important and useful subjects are covered in this book.

Nah, I don't think it’s ever a bad thing to endorse yourself in reading up on nlp. Linguistics are very much the key to successful performance, it's just the fact that you've got to know where the line is between over marketed garbage and useful tips (such as anchoring!)

But certainly prioritize your beginners reading, such as 13 steps. After all you've got to have the equation before you can plug in the details such as nlp!

best,
kirk