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Now after a couple of seasons with Criss Angel there has been discussions and uploaded videos of him. What I wanna say is that people had got the wrong picture of Criss Angel. Period. Let me explain.

Magicians around the world do tricks to impress. Magicians makes life little more excited with a knowledge, the knowledge of secrets. And the presentation is the things around the knowledge. THIS is the generally view, OUR view of magic.

Criss Angel's view is whole other. That is why many is so "on to him" when he has done some illusion. Many says like: Its so great that he must use camera angle, helpers etc on his shows. But that is the whole thing. I do know Criss commented someway that he wants to recreate the magic, to the world, as it should be seeing. And thats must include all the dirty work with his shows. Most people/magician are likely against him because he uses this stuff, but his shows isn't really, in first hand, made for us. He wants to bring back the magic from the days with Houdini etc... When magic was spectacular. Magic today is not as amazing when thinking many, many years ago. And that is what Criss wanna do, and thats why so many of us is taking 2 steps back from him, because he uses all the camera tricks there are. Criss Angel is a good illusionist. The goal Criss has is to bring the magic back and let be watched as it should be watched, including using the cam, etc. For an example I could bring up the wall climbing or walking on water, really, who does believe in that? No one. But he he wants to show the magic, and that is what he wants. You don't see Blaine or Cyril go up and down for a wall or walking on water.

I just felt to sort things out. I have seen so much that he is so bad, because he doing in this way or that way, you know with cams etc... If you are thinking like that, you have not understand what Criss wants. He wants, even although method/trick, you to just see, not think, of the magic.

So you're saying he's trying to use unorthodox or unwanted methods to remind everyone that with magic, the ends (generally) justify the means?

Just clarifying.

Every time some new comer comes along who makes it to the "big time" be it Television or Las Vegas, or some place else. There is a lot of controversy that crops up about them and their magic. I saw it happen with Doug Henning back in the 70's. Chris is an accomplished magician, I can assure u that the Academy of Magical Arts would not have given him the magician of the year award if he weren't. For television you have to play what sells audience. Chris has created a persona, a character, and used that character to deliver his magic. Johnny Thompson (the great tomsoni) is Chris's mentor. In Las Vegas you pretty well need to be connected to Johnny to play there successfully. To get a casino to back you and fund a regular show venue for u takes quite a bit of exposure and promotion. Mind Freak has been that for Chris. Don't judge all of Chris's magic by the hype, promotion, or Mind Freak. Look at today's celebrities in other areas, they do wild, and crazy things to keep their name in the public eye and promote themselves. Chris is just following the path that it seems to take today to have a major professional career. Remember, top professional stage magicians of the past weren't always the best technical magicians around. Some FISM winners make a big professional name, some are only known within the fraternity of magic. Show business is not based on technical skill or originality. It is based on creating an image that sells. That is what Chris is doing.

PickAnyCard wrote: Magic today is not as amazing when thinking many, many years ago.

Not true.. there are MANY great modern day magicians!!

PickAnyCard wrote:he uses all the camera tricks there are. Criss Angel is a good illusionist.

No.. he is not a good illusionist. He has a good cameraman!! We should be praising his tech crew!!

No.. he is not a good illusionist. He has a good cameraman!! We should be praising his tech crew!!

I've watched a lot of stuff on his tricks revealed some made sense some made no sense at all. I've read stuff some made sense some not at all. Take his rope escape video a lot of camera cuts but can't a rope escape be done with out cuts? So I think he is partly a good illusionist and partly has a good cameraman.

I think that his tech crew should get praised although the performance of the effects is all his. His tv series was tweaked alot to appeal to an audience not knowledgeable in magic. We all know that the things he does has to use camera trickery because its impossible. But what about his live shows i think they are top rate and would call him a good illusionist based on that fact alone. To use camera trickery to appeal to an audience isn't a bad thing more fool them for believing it to be real but this doesnt make him any less credible in the magic world. At the end of the day he has accomplished alot.

Both KA and DBl have done an incredible job of "making magic cool" again....they are good for the art in many situations. My complaint against them is not that they use stooges, big props, or cameras.....it is more that they deceive (outside of the obvious magic deception of course) people into thinking that EVERYTHING they do is completely impromptu and ALL the people standing around are purely inteterested pedestrians that happened to stop.

This blurrs the line between what a stage illusionist and a close-up magician do.......when someone sees me do a close-up effect, they often follow up by immediately saying, "yeah but can you levitate in a parking lot while surrounded by people!?".....it seems as though your credablitly as a magician is pegged around your ability to impromptu levitate......to do it in many of the situations they do it "apparently impromptu" it is simply a stage illusion dressed up to appear as street magic, etc......don't get me wrong, I very familiar with the balducci, kings rising, etc.....but those are not bullet proof situations that you can bet your reputation on in the real world of street magic.......

I feel that stage illusion and close-up magic (street included) are entirely different arts..........and when someone blurrs the line between the two, by deceiving people through television cameras to beleive that one is the other......you are making things difficult for those of us that TRULY perform only close up material close up, and impromptu.....

PickAnyCard wrote:Magicians around the world do tricks to impress.

That's not true. I don't do magic to impress people, I do magic to create a sense of magical wonder in people. It's easy to impress people, but it makes them feel inferior, and that's not entertaining.

PickAnyCard wrote:he uses all the camera tricks there are. Criss Angel is a good illusionist.

So do Industrial Light and Magic, but that doesn't make them magicians.

Chris Angel creates the illusion of magic.

I dont mind being tricked... that's Magic. However I like to know how skillful the magician I am watching is. If he has just performed an effect on a total stranger, that is one thing. To perform the same effect on a stooge is something else. The magician need not be as skillfull...

Now that is my view because I have an interest in magic, perhaps that is not so much the view of the general population since their primary expectation is to be entertained. I believe Criss Angel does a very good job of that, I also think he is a talented and innovative magician.

PickAnyCard wrote: Magic today is not as amazing when thinking many, many years ago.

I.D wrote:Not true.. there are MANY great modern day magicians!!

I.D you misunderstood what I was saying. What I was saying is that the "Amazing" or the "spectacular" of magic is gone. There is good and amazing tricks/magicians today, but the feeling of magic, like how it was when entering the stages many, many years ago has been minimized. Its more like a hobby that everyone does.

PickAnyCard wrote:Magicians around the world do tricks to impress.

Marvell wrote: That's not true. I don't do magic to impress people, I do magic to create a sense of magical wonder in people. It's easy to impress people, but it makes them feel inferior, and that's not entertaining.

Well I do agree that many magician's goal is, like you, to entertain. But I think many of us wanted to learn magic to impress but with time we saw the need, not only to impress but also entertain. So the magic could reach peoples heart.

PickAnyCard wrote:I.D you misunderstood what I was saying. What I was saying is that the "Amazing" or the "spectacular" of magic is gone. There is good and amazing tricks/magicians today, but the feeling of magic, like how it was when entering the stages many, many years ago has been minimized. Its more like a hobby that everyone does.

I'm not sure I agree entirely, but I do believe that there is an entirely different atmosphere whilst viewing magic than there was in the past. I would personally love to see the atmosphere of traditional vaudeville acts returning.

Does this debate really need to pop up, again?

If it's going to continue, I will once again ask for proof of camera trickery. Every single time this issue comes up I ask for it, but no one ever offers conclusive evidence of camera tricks. And for the love of all things good and just - please do NOT offer up the hallway deja vu effect as evidence of camera trickery. It is astounding that people continue to claim this as a camera trick (even after Angel himself tipped the work on the segment).

Someone else mentioned all of the cuts used in the escape videos. Try to remember these cuts aren't necessarily a cover. The shows are only a half hour long - so obviously certain segments need to be cut and edited for time, NOT enhancement.

I don't know that much about Criss Angel, but I started watching his show about three months ago. That is about the time I started doing magic.

Why is this relevant? I had an old magic book (I wanted to start magic when I was much younger, but I never had the patience to practice) that I picked up to learn some easy effects. That night I had a talent show during a scout meeting, and I was worried about a lack of acts, so I learned three easy effects that I never thought I would use again.

That Saturday I saw my first episode of Criss Angel, and I was absolutely floored! I had no clue how he did any of his effects, even the ones that I find obvious now having practiced magic for a while. I wanted to get in on the secrets, no matter what it took. I started studying my magic book, and since then I am still doing magic, entertaining my friends with it, and regularly going to a "local" magic store (the closest one is a half-hour away).

Why does this matter? Because we, as a magic community having practice the art of sleight of hand and various other deceptive manouvres that make magic possible, have forgotten exactly WHAT it is like to BE that random spectator on the street. Let's face it: some event in our life caused us to want to know the secrets of magic, and usually that event was a friend showing us a card trick that we were absolutely astonished by (even though now we could easily tell what they did) or a magic show on the media such as an old clip of Houdini in his classic water toture chamber or an actual live performance. We forget that the magic community is barely a fraction of the public, and most people are unaware of what we would consider a "beginner's sleight," and they absolutely love to be entertained by it. In fact, I was walking around my school today showing all of my freinds Stigmata, and I was asked to do it many times over, and they were always astonished (my arm is still covered in red marks). They had no clue about the riffle force, which I consider to be the easiest force in card magic.

What Criss Angel is attempting to do is to bring magic back to the world and off the PPV. What Criss Angel is attempting to do is to lighten up the moods of the everyday American (sorry for culture-specific references), even in the face of a war in the Middle East and a declining economy (and, yes, I am anti-Bush; sorry for offending anybody).What Criss Angel is attempting to do, he is doing extremely well, hence his third TV season and three CONSECUTIVE Magician of the Year Awards. We also forget that Criss Angel used to have his own live performance in NYC. He may be using tricks uncommon to the trade (sorry for the cliche), but he is not a "fake" magician. He does know the secrets, and he has spent 20+ years working on them, perfecting them, and making them better. Even though the magic community may not like how he does his work, the public does.

As for the argument about doing magic to impress vs. entertain, I believe that both are inherent parts of performing illusions. It is true that most of us picked up a deck of cards at first to impress people (myself purely for the ladies ). And many of us now feel that what we do is entertainment. But we also forget that the great magicians ENTERTAIN, but the first time we ever saw one of them perform, we were IMPRESSED. Yes, it may make people feel subservient, but it happens nonetheless. If you want to ENTERTAIN, take up comedy; if you want to do magic, accept the fact that your audiences will be IMPRESSED. That is the purpose of magic: to baffle even the greatest minds.

PickAnyCard wrote:

PickAnyCard wrote: I was saying is that the "Amazing" or the "spectacular" of magic is gone. There is good and amazing tricks/magicians today, but the feeling of magic, like how it was when entering the stages many, many years ago has been minimized.

When Chriss Angel did that 'illusion' in the hallway of that hotel.. the one where they were standing in front of the camera.. he walks in front of them and in a flash they are right down the other end of the hallway..

1) it was a different couple
2) everyone was in on it
3) who was the magic for?? 10,000 people watching at home!!

Now like Moodini said.. if a layperson has seen that and you are doing magic for them.. then they respond '' yeh but can you do that trick that Criss Angel did where..' and state the above.. we look like we are totally inferior and the impact we can give is diluted as we cant do the magic they expect or want.

There is GREAT magic that can be done without camera trickery, without stooges.. ( even stooges are fine on occasions if there are enough people around to impress!! ) but to perform in front of a bunch of people who know exactly what is going on dilutes the whole effect in my opinion.

It is like a film that has some mad special effects.. to me the whole episode is demoted to a '' wow!! thats some great camera work there.. nice idea!! '' Magic doesnt come into it..

When I watch old clips of Slydini, Cardini, FISM acts of the past like Tom Mullica or Jeff Mcbride.. Im stunned!! its beautiful magic presented the way magic should be.. sure, sometimes I know whats happening because I know things I too have learned but the whole presentation is what sells it.. and magic acts such as these do way more justice to the purpose of Magic that Blaine or Angel could EVER accomplish!!

These two have brought a new 'street' feel to magic.. and brought magic back into the public eye.. but I think they do some damage in that people that have seen there acts want people like us.. without that kind of budget or crew.. to accomplish the same.. and it just cant be done..

I think the 'amazing' magic, the 'real' magic is the kind of magic Im used to seeing... from people I learn from, Jean Hugard, Bobo, Cardini, Slydini ( what a guy!! ), Jeff Mcbride ( amazing FISM act in '94 I believe ), even the likes of Jay Sankey and his approach to commercial magic.. this is where the 'real magic' lies.. in magicians that do not inject thousands into effects that could never be replicated by the learning magician!!

Liking what Criss Angel does is also probably based on your first opinion of him. If you had already spent your own time and money to learn effects that you thought were great, and the first time you performed you got a question about, "Can you do that deja vu thing that Criss Angel did?" you probably won't like him very much because he ruined a good experience you were having with magic. I, on the other hand, support Criss Angel because he was the one who inspired me to take up magic. I favor him, and I probably will for the rest of my life because my first impression of him was a good one. It is probably up to your first opinion of him as to whether you like him or not.