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I don't know what it is but I'm starting to become extremely disappointed with mentalism...i mean i've been practicing it for like 2 months, getting all the stuff i can get my hands on, but everything i seem to end up with, just doesn't seem to do the job for me. I mean i saw Derren Brown do something where he said to someone 'think of something and just picture it in your head' and then without wiriting ANYTHING down he just told him what he was thinking. Thats what i want to do! but all i come across is stuff where the spectator must write it down or something like that.

For example i bought Josh Zandmans impromtu book test. I spent £25 quid on it and what did i learn?...The one ahead method. Maybe I'm being deeply critical but certainly someone must know where I'm coming from? Right? Sorry if I'm offending people but i'd rather get rid of this stress now and find a soutuion so i can really enjoy the work I'm getting into. Someone point me in the right direction...please...

Although i don't practice much mentalism it would seem that practice and personal preference is very important. Although you may not have learnt much off the things you have bought up to now this mmay be because you're learning someone elses style and not your own.

2 months isn't a very long time at all in magic when you look at how long some guys on here have been practicing the art and if you asked many of them they still wouldn't claim that they were perfect by any means.

What you have to remember is that Derren Brown is a world famous magician, and if truth be known I'm sure not all of his tricks (correct me if I'm wrong) are 100% genuineI mean if you were a world class mentalist and had a technique on how to do the effect you described would you want to let everyone else in the magic world know how to do it? I don't think so

Patience is the key. Over time you will learn from personal experience how best to perform effects and how to do it effectively.

As i have said 2 months isn't a very long time in magic, so keep at it! Think of it like growing up. First you crawl, then toddle, then walk and finally run. All of these stagfes take time to learn and usually if you try to get ahead of yourself you usually end up slowing your pregression. (A baby trying to run will fall over and hurt itself, or in this case your confidence). Some learn to walk faster then others again, its all about personal preference and speed. Don't rush it!

ollieinthelight wrote:I don't know what it is but I'm starting to become extremely disappointed with mentalism

A lot of magicians are. Leave it alone, at least for now.

When you've got more experience performing (as Sir Digby said), go back to Corinda and start from there. The foundations for a lot of what Derren does can be found in that book, and in a lot of instances there's more going on than you'd first think.

Mentalism is less about the 'tricks' and more about the shared experience.

ollieinthelight wrote:I don't know what it is but I'm starting to become extremely disappointed with mentalism...i mean i've been practicing it for like 2 months, getting all the stuff i can get my hands on, but everything i seem to end up with, just doesn't seem to do the job for me. I mean i saw Derren Brown do something where he said to someone 'think of something and just picture it in your head' and then without wiriting ANYTHING down he just told him what he was thinking. Thats what i want to do! but all i come across is stuff where the spectator must write it down or something like that.

For example i bought Josh Zandmans impromtu book test. I spent £25 quid on it and what did i learn?...The one ahead method. Maybe I'm being deeply critical but certainly someone must know where I'm coming from? Right? Sorry if I'm offending people but i'd rather get rid of this stress now and find a soutuion so i can really enjoy the work I'm getting into. Someone point me in the right direction...please...

I share your frustration, mate. You're looking for psychological methods, not physical ones. Banachek's Psychological Subtleties volumes 1 and 2 are great starting points for this. Volume 1 is out of print at the moment but, and here comes the plug, my new upcoming book Naked Mentalism covers the reasons why the stuff in volume 1 works, expands on it and shows you how to find more tests of the same nature, amongst other things, including a completely impromptu book test.

Beware however: psychological methods aren't guaranteed to work all the time. You need cojones to pull them off, which is why I'm particularly attracted to them - for the fear of failure!

The sort of pyshcological methods are exactly what I'm talking about. When you have a fear of failure, then your always working as hard as you can to make sure the presentation is on top form.

I just went to your site and i am DEFINITELY buying that book...how long untill its about? And how far will i have to delve into my piggy bank?

To be honest if you want to perform Derren Brown type methods in just 2 months im afraid your barking up the wrong tree. It takes years to get anywhere near that standard and to perform it any good takes alot longer. What is the point learning psycological methods if you dont know any sure fire methods, what will happen when a pshycological method fails you have to have something to back it up with. Your best bet is buying corindas 13 steps and annemans mental magic then going through a few more good books as you progress then after a few years go into psycological mentalism. Magic is not an overnight thing it takes at least a few years to get up to a decent standard. Please take this as a friendly bit of advice.

Funny thing is for me I left magic to do mental stuff. I got loads of stuff now and could do quite a good stand up or close up show. Ok when I first got the stuff and found out I needed a TT or this or that. I was like where is the real stuff? I am going back to my sponges. But I have stuck at it. And the thing is these psychological methods do exist but they are not all ways 100% bang on. The most psychological thing I do is divine what hand a coin is in. and maybe in a coin bend I will throw in some Luke Jermay./ Brown suggestions.

I am of the school that you don’t have to be ban on each time with the psychological stuff. If you want to add some that’s fine Banachek’s E.S.P opener and the first trick in Self working mental magic should give you the confidence to perform psychological stuff at first. Remember you are only 2 months in.

Now you can all ways say you are using psychology when your not after all we are in the business of illusion and Alakazam do DVD on impromptu mental magic some great tips there on how to make a simple thing look complex. But if you don’t want to be shrouded in this “lie” then you have years of study ahead of you.

Remember this is probabley the most demanding type of magic to perform some are happy with sponges some are happy divining the number 1089.

As for Tomo’s book I would also like to know when it is out.

I'm working feverishly on the manuscript as I type. It has to go to a couple of people for eye-balling, and the people who's work it builds upon to make sure I've not trod on any toes, but I'm hoping it'll be on Lulu by Easter. Price wise, does 20 quid sound excessive? It's all designed to stand alone, without a massive reading list and years of study to plough through first. The techniques will require learning, but if you put the time in, you'll look far better than the average psychic can ever do.

Well if your providing what your saying your providing then its a bargain. I mean seeing as i payed 25 quid for the one ahead method and your offering something that is so far abov that then 20 quid is a nice price!

Is it a hard copy Tomo? And How many pages? otherwise it sounds good. That and my impromtu Spelmann dvd and I think I shall be having a whale of a time. And the stuff I am learning from Tradecraft

Markdini wrote:Is it a hard copy Tomo? And How many pages? otherwise it sounds good. That and my impromtu Spelmann dvd and I think I shall be having a whale of a time. And the stuff I am learning from Tradecraft

Excellent stuff. Joe Riding's web site is still up and taking orders, too. His books are cheap and cover a large number of Reading topics with lots of good tips.

Naked Mentalism will be a proper book like The Stripper Deck and should come in at just under 100 pages of naked goodness.

Dam you Tomo! I ve just looked at advanced cold reading and Hand analysis. Another thing on my list!

You say your new book is a stand alone, but would reading psychological subtleties 1 and 2 help to gain a greater understanding?

Markdini wrote:Dam you Tomo! I ve just looked at advanced cold reading and Hand analysis. Another thing on my list!

You say your new book is a stand alone, but would reading psychological subtleties 1 and 2 help to gain a greater understanding?

Actually, yes they would but it's not essential. The starting point for NM was to understand why the psychological forces in chapter one of PS1 work. From there I go on to generate tons of new categories and give ideas for how to use them. Section 2 is a manageable version of my book test and section 3 is a whole host of other Naked techniques, including one where you sense places where gravity is weaker and prove it by being weighed. That one you really can perform with added nakidity for that extra impossibility factor!

Naked Mentalism is going on my list too!!!

What people must remember, is that Derren Brown had a solid grounding in magic and hypnosis before he developed into what he does today. He worked for years doing these things which gave him the background he needed to develop his own style.
He's so slick that it looks easy (and real!) and I can understand people wanting the same "powers" as him, but I suggest studying magic principles and working on presentation to pull these kind of things off.

Ace Tomo sounds like its going be one good book.

Freddie I agree there. Brown is so slick sometimes we dont see the "mov" although thats how it should be.