talkmagic.co.uk

Simply put, is the ID too strong an effect to start off a routine?

My rambling/thoughts:

The ID is short, sweet and gets the spectator involved, so it seems like a perfect first trick. My only concern is that it may be too strong and overshadow the rest of your routine.

If you start off with it, to continue your routine you have to switch out the deck. Of course you have to do this too if you include the ID in later in the routine, but it seems like it's easier to switch it out after a few tricks when you are in a groove with your spectator.

Later on after a few tricks the spectator is more willing to believe you are actually capable of magic and so to me a trick of the ID's strength seems more appropriate later on.

I don't know how (or if at all) the fact that after a few tricks you've been handling the deck for a while (assuming you switch out the normal deck for the ID in secret, rather than pointing out you have another deck you haven't touched) would affect the effect the ID has on the audience. 1. The other tricks would reinforce the idea that you aren't using a trick deck. 2. Taking the deck and putting it back in the box seems like bit of an unnatural movement.

I guess here I could add in a second question: When performing the ID in the middle of a routine do you switch decks secretly or do you make a point of noting that you have a second deck?


I don't know whether I'm making sense, I've just always got these ideas flying around and am trying to get them down on paper.

In answer to your first question - yep, it's a bad idea (in my opinion) to open with the ID. Firstly, it doesn't make sense to the audience that you perform an effect and put the deck back in the box and then continue... With another deck. I prefer to start a routine with a colour changing deck... That way I can continue without making any switches (obvious or otherwise).

Probably the biggest reason not to start with the ID is that it is the perfect out; your life raft. If any PACAC trick goes wrong, you can always bring in the ID from your pocket or the table, pointing out that you haven't touched this deck, nor have you seen their card. If you really have lost their card (slipped a break, messed up a false cut, etc), you can even allow the spectator to shuffle the deck, while they get used to the second deck (the ID) being in play. Then you can go for the big reveal, once you find out what their card was. (I use the 'voodoo deck' approach - ask them to turn their card face up in the deck, and then reveal the same to have happened in my ID.

And finally, it's just too good an effect to start with.

When performing the ID in the middle of a routine... Well I don't. But if I did - whether the switch was secret or I just brought out the second deck would depend on what routine I was doing.

Many variations (such as using a marked deck, the pool table version or the recovery as described above) require the use of both decks - so bringing out the deck isn't a problem. Perhaps bring it out before you intend to perform the ID, and give it to a spec to hold (but not open!) for a wee while before you move onto the effect.

If however, the effect only uses one deck - I tend to make a switch that the audience doesn't see.

My favourite way to do this is to hold the deck in my hand, and search for my stickers (one of my preferred performance methods - PM me if you want to know!) (or whatever else: a pen, a business card, etc), checking a pocket where the ID is located, making the switch, and continuing through other pockets, eventually finding what you were looking for. The deck however was invisible switched, long before you got to the pen.

I hope the above helped,

- WC.

I would strongly suggest not to ever open up a routine with an ID... it is best served for last. And I think it's also necessary to point out it's a different deck. You want to build up your reputation as a conjuror first, and then go into a routine where the spec picks ANY card, and you have this other deck in your pocket that you SPECIFICALLY prepared for this event, because you KNEW what cards the spec would choose.

This effect will completely overshadow any pick a card / find a card routine you can possibly do. Also, if you keep it until the end you can always use it as a backup in case any of your tricks go wrong. You always have the "out" if the worst happens. If all goes well during your performance, than at the end, do a routine with it.

My opinion.....

1) Too strong if you can't follow it up with something stronger....is it the strongest effect you perform?

2) I prefer to secret switch.....no point putting the deck in the spotlight (I do have a routine I have highlighted in the Mag. only section that is done with it as "another deck" but not the most common way I use it)

3) It is a great "life raft" as someone else said, so so save it!

4) A great closer....leaves people gasping....and all the previous handling of the original deck will create a subconscious impression that the deck could't have been involved in any way

5) To do one effect and put hte deck away can seem a bit dodgy

as previously said, best not use it as an opener. when table hopping, i generally have 3 decks on me in the same pocket, with the top marked so i can feel which is which. the audience only knows of one deck of cards......i can feel which is which from the top

hope my rambling made sense....very tired i am.....and i've even had to reset the whole internet just to make this post.......

moodini wrote:1) Too strong if you can't follow it up with something stronger....is it the strongest effect you perform?

I was kind of thinking on a more general level rather than a specific routine, but for sake of argument a pretty common routine for me is a combination of two card monte, here then there (blaine's first tv special and crash course 1 by ellusionist), a short ACR and finishing off with a Box Monster or Stigmata or Indecent type big flashy "real magic" type trick.

There probably is no room for an ID in a routine like that, but I would consider all of my finishing tricks to be stronger than ID. So in a roundabout way to answer your question, yes I think I have stronger effects than the ID that I use regularly.


I also echo everyones comments about using the ID as a Plan B for when you mess up another trick.

As many others have said, I use the ID as a saver if I mess something up. Its a pretty powerfull trick to the audience and has salvaged a few performances for me.

It's all been said, so I'll just echo...

Using an ID sparingly is a bonus. Don't rely on it. Yes, it's a gaffed deck... so use some effects which bring a regular deck into the spectator's hands, and let them recognise your use of normal cards.

Although I HAVE used an ID as part of a larger, more powerful effect, I would say that as a standalone, it is SO powerful and SO impossible that it really does make a hard act to follow.

And technically, once the ID has been performed, that deck is 'dirty', and not usable for anything else, so natural ditching or switching is required.

As an opener, it's leaving you literally exhausted in terms of 'what now'.

I'd personally either save it as a secret weapon, as mentioned, or weave it into one helluva big closing effect.

I tend to keep the ID in reserve adn use it only as either an encore effect if one is asked for or as an out if something goes Pete Tong.

Using it as an opener is going to mean that you're going to have to switch it out after the first trick and that's not going to be easy to do and keep the routine flowing.

seige wrote:It's all been said, so I'll just echo...

Using an ID sparingly is a bonus. Don't rely on it. Yes, it's a gaffed deck... so use some effects which bring a regular deck into the spectator's hands, and let them recognise your use of normal cards.

Although I HAVE used an ID as part of a larger, more powerful effect, I would say that as a standalone, it is SO powerful and SO impossible that it really does make a hard act to follow.

And technically, once the ID has been performed, that deck is 'dirty', and not usable for anything else, so natural ditching or switching is required.

As an opener, it's leaving you literally exhausted in terms of 'what now'.

I'd personally either save it as a secret weapon, as mentioned, or weave it into one helluva big closing effect.

Completely agree with you there. It's a powerful effect and some specs are more bowled over with it than others.
Just last night, I performed ID for a friend of mine who was completely flummoxed. The expression on his face was priceless.
Later on in the evening I performed another effect, Roy Walton's 'Pass At Red' which is usually very powerful. (I used blue bikes for both).
It didn't receive as strong as a response as usual and he said "I'm still stunned by the one you did earlier!"
I have learnt my lesson - keep ID as your secret weapon.

Though the effect will grow in his mind the next few days as he handled the normal Bikes for the second effect and has no reason to think it's not the same deck, so it served it's purpose. The second effect has strengthed the first and made it more powerful!

Too strong if you can't follow it up with something stronger....is it the strongest effect you perform

That about sums up the answer that you should be looking for. Whilst you should always start with a strong piece of magic to 'capture' your audience, If you have equally as strong effects and can work, as Seige has said, an ID into a larger routine then I personally don't see a problem. I'm not suggesting that everyone who says avoid it is wrong, far from it, work out what is the best for you.

Never be fooled into thinking that it's OK to start a routine with mediocre magic just because you're ending with a real brain fryer. Start high, with whatever you decide to use, and then keep it there as a minimum throughout.

If you start weak then you won't have an audience left by the time you get to your finale.