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I saw this awesome video on YouTube when I was looking for trick explainations. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYxu_MQSTTY It's an awesome spoof of those crappy street magic specials that Blaine does. **WARNING** Um, this video is kinda rated R

monker59 wrote:I was looking for trick explainations.

Oh deary deary me...

Tomo wrote:

monker59 wrote:I was looking for trick explainations.

Oh deary deary me...

Tomo, there a lot of good tricks on YouTube that are explained. If I were you, I'd see what I'm talking about before you pass judgement.

The fact that they are good tricks isn't a reason to expose them.

Just so we're clear, I don't expose my own tricks. Did either of you look at the video?

monker59 wrote:

Tomo wrote:

monker59 wrote:I was looking for trick explainations.

Oh deary deary me...

Tomo, there a lot of good tricks on YouTube that are explained. If I were you, I'd see what I'm talking about before you pass judgement.

I take it these were marketed effects? Effects which someone - a real person we're talking about here - spent a long time developing, performing, re-evaluating and testing out all over again before releasing to the magic community.

Now you, as someone interested in that piece of magic, have two options: You can either buy it, or you can find a free tutorial somewhere on the net.

If you do the latter then you are depriving the creator of an INCOME. You are stealing from him, and although perhaps not illegal, it is stealing nonetheless. Would you be performing that effect if it wasn't for the creator? Very unlikely. He or she deserves to be paid and thus given their dues.

It is for this very reason - unethical performers - that some creators are limiting what they release to the magic community. If it continues at this rate, all that will be left is rubbish on the market.

That is why Tomo is complaining - so perhaps you should re-evaluate your ethics before telling others what to do.

And yes, we've seen it.

monker59 wrote:

Tomo wrote:

monker59 wrote:I was looking for trick explainations.

Oh deary deary me...

Tomo, there a lot of good tricks on YouTube that are explained. If I were you, I'd see what I'm talking about before you pass judgement.

He wasn't saying it because he thought there are only rubbish trick exposed on YouTube. He said it because you looked for a free explaination of a trick that someone spent months working hard on untill he thought it was suitable to be released so he could get an income to feed himself and probably his family and therefore survive.

Read the above post again, you need to take a longer look around here I think.

Magicians of the forum, I would like to explain my reasoning for looking for trick explainations on YouTube. First, these tricks are done by hobbyists, not career magicians. Second, if you release a video on YouTube which reveals any kind of secret, it is not the person who looks at it who is morally wrong, but the releaser of the video. Third, the tricks that are revealed on YouTube have so far only been card tricks and simple sleight of hand, there is no product that is being exploited (except maybe playing cards and quarters). Finally, YouTube was created to share information freely on the web. If a person freely releases a video revealing the work behind a trick, they have shown that they do not care if people know this secret. I believe that no blame should fall on me because I watch what is freely released onto the Internet. If you do not like someone who releases trick secrets, perhaps you should contact the makers of such videos and tell them that you think this is wrong. I will not have my character called into question on such unfounded accusations.

monker59 wrote:First, these tricks are done by hobbyists, not career magicians.

AND? Does the lack of respect that these kids have for the art not worry you at all?

monker59 wrote:Second, if you release a video on YouTube which reveals any kind of secret, it is not the person who looks at it who is morally wrong, but the releaser of the video.

Actually, if you read what I said I said that it would be morally wrong to then perform it without buying the effect and giving the creator his dues.

Third, the tricks that are revealed on YouTube have so far only been card tricks and simple sleight of hand, there is no product that is being exploited (except maybe playing cards and quarters).

Do you mean the ones you watch? How do you know what is a marketed product? Card tricks can be marketed effects too, you know.

It's better that you don't watch explanations of marketed tricks but really, $10 or so would buy you a copy of The Royal Road To Card Magic which is a much better starting point.

Finally, YouTube was created to share information freely on the web. If a person freely releases a video revealing the work behind a trick, they have shown that they do not care if people know this secret. I believe that no blame should fall on me because I watch what is freely released onto the Internet.

It's a case of MORALS. No-one can stop you watching them. But your argument is weak.

In effect you are saying: "Somebody has given me the opportunity to do X, therefore if I do X I should not be blamed for it".

Hmm.

If you do not like someone who releases trick secrets, perhaps you should contact the makers of such videos and tell them that you think this is wrong.

Actually, we do. Most people don't choose to listen however. When marketed effects are revealed then you'd probably be surprised by how many people contact the creators to alert them. They then start looking into legal action to take against these people.

I will not have my character called into question on such unfounded accusations.

You put it out there, people will make what they will of it.

If you read what I said you would see that it only applies to marketed effects. I don't think many would have a go at you for watching how the 21 Card Trick is done for example. But YouTube is a terrible place to learn from. Get a book - there are many listed here - and learn from professionals.

Very nicely done, Cardza. Took the words from my mouth and made 'em sound a whole lot better

Look, how much money do you guys spend on magic supplies every year? How many books do you have that are stacked up on your shelf? I do not believe that if I buy books on tricks, a comapny's stocks will rise or the magicians who write them will find themselves noticebly more wealthy. Besides, I am not totally opposed to buying tricks. I've probably spent about $2000 dollars on tricks in the past three years and have bought 20 magic books in the last five. I'm sixteen, for Christ's sake. I don't have access to alot of money. I get by on what I have.

I'm fifteen. I do just fine. I have quite a stack of cards, DVDs, and books, all bought by me. The fact of the matter is this: If you're going to call yourself a magician like you are doing, then you should probably follow the rules of being one. Exposure is one. And it seems that through YouTube, you've been breaking that rule. So, you have choices. Steal other people's hard work or help them out by giving them the little money they ask (sometimes ).

monker59 wrote:I've probably spent about $2000 dollars on tricks in the past three years and have bought 20 magic books in the last five.

Wow! Then you must have a wide knowledge of magic! Why bother searching for the so-called freebies then? I'm sure if you you have $2000 worth of tricks, you can survive on those and you'll have no need to find these immoral videos on Youtube!

If you really do enjoy magic, then please abide to the magician's code! We do not reveal magic. If you find it immoral to reveal magic, then why are watching videos of other people revealing magic? Don't you find it immoral at all?

I rest my case.

Steve

Dominick wrote:Steal other people's hard work or help them out by giving them the little money they ask (sometimes ).

I'm not stealing the tricks from them. They're not asking for any money. In response to Stevebo, most of the tricks I've bought, I've bought better ones or they are the tricks I first started out on: The plastic cups w/ fluffy balls or the zig-zag card. I've grown as a magician and my trick repetoire needs to as well.

No offense, but for someone who has spent thousands of dollars on books and effects your handling of a simple silk vanish on your myspace site should be far more advanced than it was.

But that's not the issue.

Your argument is that because YOU don't post the videos, you are not responsible for watching it. There are many who would agree with you, but it's just not the case. You need to place your argument in context to really see the problem here.

Look at it from a different perspective. If someone breaks into Best Buy and steals a bunch of electronic equipment - they've committed a crime. Without a doubt. However, during the course of this crime, they just left a few items laying on the sidewalk. Now you come along, see a nice dvd player just laying there. So you pick it up and take it home.

You didn't break in the store - but you still took home stolen merchandise. In this case, it should also be noted that you can and would be prosecuted for theft. You want it to be apples and oranges, but it's not.

But that's an extreme. Look at it from a more personal perspective. Say in a few years, you come up with an amazing magic effect. You put months (sometimes years) of effort into creating it, refining it, perfecting it. You workshop it with close friends, you test it on audiences for months. Then you set it down - be it on paper of DVD. You package it, you market it. Someone picks it up and suddenly you have a distributor for your brilliant effect.

Then some jackass with a dvd burner or scanner rips your work and posts it and the explanations all over the web. Just try to tell me you'd only be ticked off by the one guy...especially if it starts hurting sales.

And your line on what's on youtube is an outright lie. Marketed effects (some of which are VERY expensive) have been exposed by people on Youtube. Just ask around, plenty of examples can be given. I won't list them here (mostly for fear that you might try to go search for them).

It's not just about money. It's about integrity. It's about respect. Your character was called into question because the members of this forum saw what you said and took it as both a personal and community affront. I'm sure you read the rules when you joined up (I hope you did), so can you truly be surprised by a backlash when you openly admit you're searching for trick explanations?

That's not to say this is a massive problem, really. I for one, am more than willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in the future. I've seen your other posts on the forum, and I think you do have a genuine interest in magic. I just think you need to rethink your position on this particular issue.