talkmagic.co.uk

I'm all for the card-culling with a spread cull. It's a great technique, and very versatile. Is it the one and only card-technique you will ever need? MagicTricks in their advertising for Iain Moran's DVD would have you believe that it is. The following is taken directly from the item description.

And you can use CULLING to switch cards… force cards… control cards… setup tricks… as an out… and HUNDREDS of other applications!

Infact, if you can CULL you can dispense with HUNDREDS of moves!!

Just for starters, ALL of this lot:
Vernon Strip-Out Addition
Braue Addition
Double Undercut
Classic Pass
Turnover Pass
Riffle Pass
Cutting
Classic Force
Riffle Force
Cross Cut Force
Slip Force
Dribble Force
Secret Subtraction
Dribble Pass
Balducci Force
Double Turnover
Top Change
Bluff Pass
Multiple Shift
Side Steal
Spread Pass
Cover Pass

The first para I have no problem with. To suggest that learning a spread-cull allows you to 'dispense' with a techniques such asthe double-cut and the classic pass, not to mention the top change(!) is taking things much too far. The logic that's being used here seems to be:
The cull can be used as a control therefore it's the only control you'll ever need. It can be used as a force, so it's the only force you'll ever need...
Etc, etc.

The inexperienced and the new to card magic who take this at face value could be led into making a purchase that isn't suitable for their needs. Call me cynical, but this seems to the underlying objective behind the chosen wording.

You expect stuff like this from 'E', but I thought MagicTricks were better.

Actually, it seems that they might be taking this directly from the manufacturers blurb. The promo vid for the DVD contains the statement 'Learn one move and you won't need any of these...', going on to list the techniques above.

Priceless.

Even if the wording doesn't come from MT it's still pretty disgraceful.

Charles

It says 'dispense with', which implies you already USE the other methods.

I think you're over-reacting here slightly. The cull, as any practicing magician who uses it knows, can easily replace many other moves. Learning to cull cards well is a lot harder than some other sleights, and won't necessarily appeal to a beginner anyway.

This isn't misleading at all. Simply factual.

The wording comes straight from the demo. Magicshop have just used the same advertising page.

I thought the same.. it may ( probably will be a great purchase ) but to say you will never need any other move is a little ambitious.

Then again, its just advertising, it happens everywhere though

'' Buy this soap you'll never had to wash your face again !! '

Its marketing, its not meant to be taken that literally, its just hyped up

And the moves are there as an OPTION to other moves.. it up to each individual as to which move they prefer or are comfortable with

I can't understand how the claim that if you can spread-cull you can dispense with the double turnover and classic pass can be interpreted factual. I can quote specific instances that flat-out contradict this, but it should be evident that you aren't going to get away with performing card effects relying on one sleight anyway.

It seems to me that this advertising copy has been written with the specific aim of appealing to people who are struggling to learn sleights like the pass, the TC and the DL to offer them what seems to be an easy solution. It certainly reads like it's been written to appeal to a beginner.

its obviously just hype but when i saw it recently i did think it was a little silly, They could have just said it can be used for:

* Controlling cards
* Forcing cards

But instead they have a whole list mainly of different forces and controlls it can replace. Why stop there why not have another 50 forces it could replace on the list

Also having a variety of options at your dosposal is essential so as not to give chances for the method to be caught on to, so this for most would simply be added to that list and not necessarily given more inportance.

Of course they are just trying to promote their product in a crowded marketplace, it does seem however (imho) this copy is aimed more at the novice.

or! it could be aimed at people at me...

been studying magic for six years, but could never get to grips with a cull, so it got left behind...so this might be a handy little visual teach-in for me...

its just one of those things that never worked in my brain, however many times i tried...

it was like ed marlo's deliberate side steal, had major problems with that for ages, bought the Unclassified dvd and i was completely sorted after a few days...

i agree it should never be used as a "one sleight fits all" kinda thing, but i do also think it has its benefits for those of us who can be occasionally cack-handed!

Couldn't agree with you more Charles. Advertising is very tightly controlled in most areas these days, but magic items and DVDs seem to be able to claim what ever they want. And OK most of us with a bit of experience will know its mostly hype, but as you say, younger students will be sucked in by it.
A little unfair to single put this DVD though, I think it would be harder to pick out the ones that aren't over-hyped. I know its one of the first things I learned in magic and I'm sure its the same with most people, never read too much into the descriptions of the effect in advertisements ( it can lead to a serious case of C.U.P.S. )

i had a quick whizz thru this last night - it has made the cull alot easier for me to learn...i can on occasion be truly cack-handed...(but thats my fault for buying cheap toilet paper)

the only downside for me, if i were picky, is that the music is far too bassy for my delicate lcd tv so i have to keep zooming up n down with the volume...

other than that - the only fault is a very common one in magic dvds, lack of scripting...

BUT! it does teach it very well, and you get two camera angles on screen which is a nice touch...from a specs view, and a kinda 3/4 side on view...

only had time to watch the first couple of effects..really liked the 4 aces one..

personally though, i much prefer dave forrest's teach-ins...but ozman does a great job of getting iain to re-cap what he's just shown...

I too watched most of this last night. Fantastic.

It really does do what it says on the tin.

Those who learned (or tried) to learn the Cull from books etc., and have seen it skimmed over on DVDs will appreciate that this seems to be the definitive guide.

Some VERY handy hints and basic mistakes are gone over (such as, what to do if you need to cull the top card of the pile!) and all in all, I think this really is going to do a lot of good for cardies who have thus far neglected the cull.

It really WILL replace a few moves for many people, as it's taught so well here. From the basics, to the more in-depth methods and uses.

So, it may just live up to the hype, I'm afraid to say!

Although I can understand Charles' point, I think there's both a wee bit of truth and a wee bit of poetic license in the blurb (and in the interests of full disclosure, I am very tangentially affiliated with BBM, although not with this product).

The bottom line is that if you can cull effectively you _can_ dispense with many sleights - it just may not be a good idea to do so. It's like saying that by learning a pass you can dispense with a double undercut (which is actually a damn good point for learning the pass, but I digress...)

Because many moves in magic duplicate, to some extent, the effect of others, for many people it works to have a small arsenal of moves with which they are completely comfortable and use them for the majority of their work.

I forget the source, but there's a famous quote that all you need in magic is a force, and control and a palm. Actually, that's card magic, but you take my point. I suppose the advantage of sticking to one method for many sleights is that you will obtain, albeit subconciously, uniformity of action.

I love the cull. I've used it for years, and made a twenty minute lesson for the Sessions. But it's not the be all and end all of magic.

That would be the muscle pass

Take care, Ian

if anyone thinks they will just learn this sleight and forego all others..then that's there problem...i could never survice without Paul's move, or the Hermann or the side steal...not to mention half dozen others...

but! if, like me, you sometimes need to learn something visually, this'll do the trick (pardon the pun)...

blurbs are there to sell yer product...all products are guilty of over egging to varying degrees...

"this'll fry your audience"...unless it's a hotplate you can add to a chair and some lard...not always true is it...

"you could start a religion with this"...tut tut...how many religions does one man want eh?!

anyway, i'd say - if you're struggling with the sleight, and want some good effects to get your mind working, then yeah...this'll do the job!

but dont buy it thinking its an easy way in to being a proper cardician...and if you do, then more fool you! you'll only be able to perform stuff in this way for so long before someone's going to be thinking "yeah yeah..why do you keep doing *insert words here*"...

Hey guys.

I've only been on this site a day but I must say I really like it, its very useful and theres ome good banter!

One thing I keep reading is CUPS?!? What does it mean? I can get the gist of it (and I think I am a suffer if it is what I think) but what does it actually stand for? Hope someone can help?

I am a beginner to magic and am not learning to make a living just to entertain friends and show of a bit really! I have bought quite a few DVDs and effects such as Trickery Double, Passing Thru and many more but what I am really after is some killer effects that are easy to learn and really wow people and some decent coin magic! Sleight of hand puts me off cos I'm sh*te at it but there must be something out there!

My biggest problem is I get suckered in so easily and they all sound so good, but when I get them I'm often disappointed or they're over-complex! Is that CUPS??? The Cullfather looks good for me but is it?! Or will it be another 20 squid down the drain?!?

Anyways, hope somebody can help me as my overdraft keeps taking a beating!

Cheers for reading!