talkmagic.co.uk

mark lewis wrote:I used to have a video of Anthony Cools. He is filthy.

yup.... extremely! I am thankful my wife did not attend that show with me!! (I did have a good laugh, however!)

yes I agree that the mind can cause you to do the weirdest things, including "believing" you're hypnotized.

It always amuses me how those of you who dismiss psychic ability as being hokum are quite happy to believe in hypnotism and NLP. Personally I would rather beleive in psychic ability than twaddle like hypnotism. But then, as a genuine psychic I would say that, wouldn't I? And furthermore, I knew I was going to say it.

One piece of advice. Mark Lewis knows what he is talking about.

Jonathan Royle also states that "There's no such thing as hypnotism". I know - I bought the bloody DVD.

Aha the "Dr" Jonathan Royale. Did you know he is now the Revd Dr Royle, Deceased (as of 1st April just gone)? Amazingly he also has the powers to return from the dead for special seminars. He has, however, decided to revert back to his original name of Alex Smith (but still a "Revd" and "Dr").

Very much an acquired taste and as slippery as you can get. He really did miss his vocation to become a used car salesman. That said, he does tell it as it is and if any of you want proof about what Mark or I have been saying his (Jonathan Royale) "There is no such thing as hypnosis" DVD set is worth a look. Be warned that production values were omitted. Worth borrowing if not buying.


I am not surprised that your friend was left confused for some time after the show you attended. He will have been taking in a barrage of verbal and visual signals which were designed to do exactly that. The fact that he thinks in a linear logical way will simply add to that. Confuse the mind so much that the subject will simply go along with the easier to follow instructions. The fact that most of what he will have heard is complete nonsense or simply does not make sense will bring about that 'weird' feeling. Others can experience headaches as an after effect. there is nothing mystical about it, its just human physiology which a 'good' hypnotist capitalises upon.

There is real skill involved with 'hypnotising' people or leading them to the conclusion that they have been. The techniques are easy enough to learn but the application takes somewhat longer. Verbal and visual distractions, just as many of you use, in 'regular' magic routines are simply amplified.

I have a reputation elsewhere for not liking to see people being ripped off by crazy 'therapies' and emotional cons. If it's helpful to them, fine but too many people are just out to fleece. I'm resisting the temptation to bite re psychic abilities. Maybe when I've been here longer.

I'm resisting the temptation to bite re psychic abilities. Maybe when I've been here longer.

Oh, you should just jump in. No-one here's likely to take offence. Just go for it.

I've met people like you before!

No thanks!

Marvelous thread, this! I've never tried to hypnotise anyone, so do not know of what I speak, but contribution I'd like to make is the notion that if someone is on stage and hypnotised, then there is a perceived shift in responsibility for someone's actions. It's okay for someone to cluck chicken-like because the situation of being hypnotised somehow permits it. This is, if you like, the flipside of the "blame the hypnotist" issues that so often lead to the moral outcries and requests for banning the practice. I don't know if any empirical evidence exists for this specific situation, but I guess a similar vein is the experiment in which people were asked to administer electric shocks to subjects when requested to. Part of their willingness, I'm certain, comes down to the permission granted in following orders.

This thread is seriously messing with my logic meter.

Jae wrote:Confuse the mind so much that the subject will simply go along with the easier to follow instructions.

This is what I call hypnosis. So you're telling me this doesn't exist?

Jae wrote:There is real skill involved with 'hypnotising' people or leading them to the conclusion that they have been.

So if you lead someone into this state, and they are then genuinely in this state, then how can you say hypnotism doesn't exist. When your post mainly proves that these altered states exist?

Or is everyone just arguing about the meaning of the word "hypnotism" in the classical sense?

Mr-Grue - My take is that participants in a stage show have allowed themselves to do what they do. they can always blame the hypnotist for it afterwards! Some participants do, however, get genuinely swept up in the clever wordplay and trickery taking place (which includes a lot of psychological and physiological effects) and will genuinely believe they have been 'taken over' but the reality is they haven't.

Beeno - just because a hypnotist bamboozles someone so much that they give up and comply does not mean there is anything going on re most peoples conception as to what hypnosis is. Really this debate will boil down to semantics regarding definitions. Yes, you can use psychological and physiological stimulus and 'trickery' to persuade someone to think or act in a way you desire BUT they are under no more of a mystic influence or different state of mind than the specs you will manipulate through clever patter and deceptive distractions etc when performing magic. Hypnosis does take this several notches further but in essence is no different. For example, you have probably been in a shopping centre/mall and experienced that dazed feeling induced by the heat and constant hubbub etc (sorry to the compulsive shoppers out there - you may not have felt this in your state of heightened excitement ). When you have been in that state of mind you are probably more likely to just go along with the flow than resist. Amplify that several fold and add some methods of inducing that sort of feeling and you get close to what hypnosis is. A common analogy is when you are reading a book or watching TV and someone can enter the room, even speak to you, and you are so absorbed by something else that you don't recollect their being there. Nobody is saying nothing happens in somebodies brain just that it is not as mystical as made out. Actually, with stage performances there is a high likelihood that nothing has happened at all other than the spec deciding for whatever reason to play along.

Its a confusing thing to convey in written form. If you get the opportunity go and book a session with a hypnotherapist (just for a relaxation session if you want) or volunteer to participate in a stage show. You will find there are many similarities and a few differences in how things are done (different hypnotists use different methods of course and there are some who do stage acts which are 100% fake just to add to the confusion) but experience the 'state' for yourself and you'll probably come out of it wondering what all the fuss was about. Sorry, if my attempts at explaining are not up to scratch but, baseline, I do persuade people to do things but it is them who opt to do it and there is no mystic stuff in it just as in any other 'magic' or the salesman persuading you to buy a certain product.

What makes hypnosis so interesting (to me as a psychotherapist rather than a performer) is how even many of those practicing it don't realise how they are creating the effect. We could get into very deep philosophical conversation as well as discussing neurological processes which can be measured but doing so only confuses the matter further as there ARE processes happening (even when someone decides to just act & play along) but the topic will invariably return to semantics and (fortuitously for me) a case of whether you decide to believe I and others can externally effect your brain or not.

If there were a way to use hypnotism the way the majority perceive it all hypnotists would be fantastically wealthy and being befriended by politicians and salesmen along with those magicians who can make money appear from nowhere and fly through the air.

I perform stage hypnosis. Hypnosis really exists but not the way the average person thinks it does. Most people will even go so far as to say it can be dangerous as it messes with people's minds... That is a total delusion.

P.H.

I know I said I wouldn't get involved in another hypnosis thread but I could not let this go:

Peter Harrison wrote:Most people will even go so far as to say it can be dangerous as it messes with people's minds... That is a total delusion.

Peter, are you talking about STAGE hypnosis here, or hypnosis in general?

If you're talking about actual hypnosis - or, to be more precise, an accessing of the REM state programme whilst awake - then I would have to strongly disagree with you here (as in, I hold the view that when used carelessly it can do a great deal of harm).

Absolutely. There is very little danger other than falling off the stage from the enterainment side but when used as a tool within 'therapeutic' situations there are many ways that you can end up causing more problems by messing about with peoples interpretation of themselves and the world they are in.

Despite being very clear in not accepting much of the myth around hypnosis and usually happy to play along with conversations about the semantics of the various terms used I do believe that if you want to do anything other than a basic stage routine you have to undertake a lot of training in related (psychological) fields. Failure to recognise that is setting yourself and others up for potential problems.

It appears that there are two people here who earn a good part of their income by "hypnosis" (please note the inverted commas).

One is a therapist and one is an entertainer. Both are non-state theorists which to put it more bluntly believe "hypnosis" is a bunch of codswallop.

Since we both do it for a living it may perhaps be worth listening to us.

i remember a story about Mezma, when he became famous and was king of his animal-magnetism, the story goes that he was on his travels, and tried to instantly hypnotize some young lad or other...

He made his passes and said his spiel, the kid just looked at him blankly...because he had no idea who the man was, or what he was doing, he couldnt be hypnotized...he had no concept of what that was...or how you are supposed to "act"....

all i can say is that i've never studied hypnotism (as in gone to a proper course or anything), just read a few books...so, is it that i can properly "suggest" things to people, or is it that because i've told someone that i am going to hypnotise them on some level, that therefore means that they allow me to enable them to hypnotise themselves?

I think, that suggestion is very real and useable...but im still not really sure what hypnosis means...

abraxus wrote:...I think, that suggestion is very real and useable...but im still not really sure what hypnosis means...

Which means you are no different to anyone else.

Think we've about exhausted where this thread is going so (for now) I'm bailing out.

PLEASE TELL ME MORE ABOUT JONATHAN ROYLE'S DEATH. HE's SOMETHING ELSE THAT MAN!