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Last night I was performing at an oopening night for a new pizza express in Southampton (Very Posh) and I was most definatley on form. The first group I approached were friendly and reacted really well to my magic. This set the whole room up in expectancy and the applause just kept getting louder and the reactions more exaggerated which is great.
The problem lies in the form of four people two guys two girls, all boyfriend or girlfriend. I realised that to not invoke jelously I would have to perfom to the guys first and then slowly include the women more and more untill I was talking to the whole group. The problem was that instantly the alpha male of the group felt threatened, he talked in short sentances with curt replies, stood in a very dominant way and looked down on me. So I ignored this and continued to try and win him over by including him and ingnoring the women slightly. However in all of my tricks he called out that he had seen something, this was impossible as there was only one time where he actually called out he'd deen something as I had just done the sleight it was that I had put something in my pocket when I had actually just palmed a card, the others were during moments of patter where I was not doing anything at all! This had an effect on the whole group and soon they were all turning hostile toward me. Now this is a serious problem. I am very good at turning the alpha male into a friendly not a hostile and as we all know if you cannot befriend the leader of the group the group is lost. But this situation (the jelous boyfriend who sees me as a threat) is one situation that I seem unable to handle. Please don't tell me to walk away as I do not wish to . I would like him to walk away and leave the group to me. Saying that I want him to walk away thinking that it was his idea and not because the magician told him to F off. I want him to comply or go away feeling like he had won. Saving that I would like a one liner put down that is not directly rude but will make the rest of the group rise up against him.
so to recap. Advice on gettibg rid of the alpha male, either by nutralising him or by getting him to leave.
Advice on turning his friends/girlfriend against him so that he shuts up and lets everyone else enjoy the magic.

Thankyou very much
Soho

Don't chastise a dog for defending its territory. Hold your palm out at nose height and let it sniff you.

To be honest if someone's giving you that much hassle just leave it, there's no obligation to 'win' when you're only doing what you're paid to do (you're not on asf now ).

People sometimes feel threatened by being shown something they can't explain hence the hostility. If they don't respond to friendliness and being invited to take part in a routine then move on simple as that. I wouldn't say you'd lose the group if the 'alpha' doesn't like you, if you're performing well the majority of them should and in that scenario they'll try to shut the idiot up. We've all had experiences where that's happened.

I find in situations like that, you need some help... and for me that help comes in the form of a tried, tested and true, unfallible gimmick. Use an ID, stripper, or marked deck and achieve the absolute impossible with ABSOLUTELY NO funny movements on your part. Break it down to the simplest of effects "pick any card" and then "oh look I knew you were going to say that, I turned over that card last night in this deck..." etc etc.

This way, there is no way he can say "I saw what you did!".... because, in reality and VISIBLY to everyone, you DID NOTHING!

When this Alpha male (or any other difficult spectator) is totally blown away by the completely unexplainable, you'll have won his respect and he'll shut up.

Hey, condolences, that can't have been fun. I do think you're barking up the wrong tree for getting him to leave though - think through what you've just said... he sees you as a threat - how can you then expect to do *anything* to make him leave his territory and his girlfriend to your mercies!

Besides, the only way to make him walk away would be for you to be so pathetic in some way that he sees you as laughable, not challenging in any way. If you really want to metaphorically lick sh*t off his shoe, be my guest. I personally would put your cards away quietly, smile wistfully and say "ladies and gentlemen, obviously I'm not needed here as you have an expert in magic with you. Have a pleasant evening." If you can't win him over, the best you can hope for is leaving the group resenting him for driving you away!

Not being funny matey but perhaps you predicted our responses for good reason - because it's good advice! Your request is a bit like saying "How do you make meringues? Please don't tell me to whisk egg whites, I don't want to..."

Have we another ASFer?

ASFer?

The problem was that instantly the alpha male of the group felt threatened, he talked in short sentances with curt replies, stood in a very dominant way and looked down on me.

Well, there's a red flag, right there.

So I ignored this and continued to try and win him over by including him and ingnoring the women slightly.

That's a whole lot of ignoring going on.

However in all of my tricks he called out that he had seen something, this was impossible as there was only one time where he actually called out he'd deen something as I had just done the sleight it was that I had put something in my pocket when I had actually just palmed a card, the others were during moments of patter where I was not doing anything at all! This had an effect on the whole group and soon they were all turning hostile toward me.

Another red flag.

Now this is a serious problem.

Ya think?

I am very good at turning the alpha male into a friendly not a hostile and as we all know if you cannot befriend the leader of the group the group is lost.

No matter how good you are, the old saying still hold true: "You can't win them all."

Please don't tell me to walk away as I do not wish to . I would like him to walk away and leave the group to me.

You're an entertainer, not a group psychologist or a teacher. They aren't the ones who should walk away, you are. They did not ask for you to be there, you just happened to be and you decided that you were going to show them some magic whether they liked it or not.

See a problem here?

I want him to comply or go away feeling like he had won.

Feeling like he had won? Won what? Why do you feel you are in a win/lose situation? Just because a group is not open to your magic isn't a loss to you, it simply is. It simply exists. Not everyone likes magic, believe it or not.

In fact, there are some people who honestly hate magic and magicians. Normally it's because some magician showed up at some time or another and forced his "greatness" upon them.

Advice on turning his friends/girlfriend against him so that he shuts up and lets everyone else enjoy the magic.

What an absolutely sh*tty attitude. Just who the hell do you think you are?

You are a magician. A garbage collector does more for society than a magician does. Without garbage collectors, we'd have garbage in the streets, on the sidewalks, all over the place and it would stink. Without magicians we'd have...Well, we'd have a world without magicians. That's all.

You need to realize your place in the cosmos. You seem to think that you are more important than you really are.

I'm sorry to come on this strong, but you've made my job just a little bit harder with your attitude - you've done nothing to make us, as a group, look better, but we now look worse. So, I do get a bit out of joint over such confrontational things from magicians.

You are an entertainer. Nothing more. You don't have the right to go up to a group and, upon taking a dislike to a particular person, try to put the group against that person.

You were hired to entertain, not alienate.

Mike.

Dear Michael Jay.
You have not been of much help. You have just seen someone going about things the wrong way and all you have done is criticise. Infact you have not given a very good name to magicians yourself, as you have not even tried to answer my questions, you have just turned my words against me and used me as a bad example. No sir, you should be ashamed!
So I will ask my questions again this time I hope you will have the common courtesy to answer them. (I have revised them slightly tailoring my questions to the knowledge I have gained from these posts.)
A small appology because I believe that I did not make myself clear. The group wants to be entertained, they want to see my magic with excited yeses and clapping and jumping up and down. Exept the one boyfriend.

1) ASF'er what is it.
2)

ASFer?

Quote:
The problem was that instantly the alpha male of the group felt threatened, he talked in short sentances with curt replies, stood in a very dominant way and looked down on me.


Well, there's a red flag, right there.

By red flag do you mean that I should not have approached?

3)

Quote:
So I ignored this and continued to try and win him over by including him and ingnoring the women slightly.


That's a whole lot of ignoring going on.

Yes I ignored my first impression, because nintey percent of people who are at first nervous are usually put at ease by giving them a little more attention. People who are heckling are usually doing so because they are being starved of attention. So by ignoring the girlfriends and giving the heckler a l;ittle bit more attention I am doing two things, allying his fears about me flirting by ignoring the women untill he becomes accostomed to my presence and two keeeping him in the spotlight using my tricks to make him look like the guy whos doing the magic. Is this really so wrong?
So if it is what would you do?

4)

Quote:
Now this is a serious problem.


Ya think?

Yes I do think, that's why I bothered posting up here asking for help, duh.


5)

Quote:
I am very good at turning the alpha male into a friendly not a hostile and as we all know if you cannot befriend the leader of the group the group is lost.


No matter how good you are, the old saying still hold true: "You can't win them all."

The only decent peice of advice you have given so far.

6)

Quote:
Please don't tell me to walk away as I do not wish to . I would like him to walk away and leave the group to me.


You're an entertainer, not a group psychologist or a teacher. They aren't the ones who should walk away, you are. They did not ask for you to be there, you just happened to be and you decided that you were going to show them some magic whether they liked it or not.

See a problem here?

Not really. If the entire group is enjoying my magic and then he starts to screw it up, why shouldn't he be the one to leave. Why should he be the one to ruin all of the spectators fun by making me leave? Surley majority rules.

7)

Quote:
I want him to comply or go away feeling like he had won.


Feeling like he had won? Won what? Why do you feel you are in a win/lose situation? Just because a group is not open to your magic isn't a loss to you, it simply is. It simply exists. Not everyone likes magic, believe it or not.

In fact, there are some people who honestly hate magic and magicians. Normally it's because some magician showed up at some time or another and forced his "greatness" upon them.

I feel in a win lose situation because he has confronted me in an open and unwelcoming manner. His goal now is to see me off. Now when I am entertaining a group who is wanting me to entertain them, such as the group in question then surley you can see that I am losing. the satisfaction of getting them to smile and laugh. the opportuninty to try that new trick out, the opportunity top try and show that one difficult person that magic is just som harmless fun.

You are a magician. A garbage collector does more for society than a magician does. Without garbage collectors, we'd have garbage in the streets, on the sidewalks, all over the place and it would stink. Without magicians we'd have...Well, we'd have a world without magicians. That's all.

I suppose that's one way of looking at it. Another way would be that without magicians the world would be a sad place. There woudl be one less avenue for our imagination to be channeled into. One less avenue for laughter, release, tension, suspence, fear, happiness, berwilderment and many other feelings.
Without magicians those childhood memories of a coin being produced from behind your ear. (If you don't have one of those I feel sorry for you.) We would not have that one last wonder. Everyone knows how telly works, knows how the phone and internet works, knows how to paint, but they do not know how to do magic, people don't just hate magic they hate it for a reason, one which stems back, perhaps most likley, they do not like the unexplained. Magic is one of the great questions which will continue to evolve and challenge the imaginations of theose who are magicians thoes who are'nt those who are interested and those who are not.
So I think magicians are important.

"You have just seen someone going about things the wrong way and all you have done is criticise. Infact you have not given a very good name to magicians yourself, as you have not even tried to answer my questions, you have just turned my words against me and used me as a bad example. No sir, you should be ashamed! "

Soho - thats a rancid attitude you've got...show some respect...to both other people, and to magic...

if you want to be told that you were right, go talk to your mum...

if you want the truth, be willing to accept the odd kick in sacks...

if you come on a forum, expect responses and thoughts that might, shock horror, be different from your own...

was it a paid gig? were you invited?

My way of looking at things like this is that I want to entertain people, if someone doesn't want to see my magic that I'll take it away to someone who does.

The first few times I came up against people like this I'd try to continue, but I've learnt since that it's best to cut your losses and move on. I know people like this can be seen as a challenge but I don't think they're worth the effort, I want to make people smile and laugh, not to have to battle with them for a reaction.

Soho - you may also want to post some biog. in the Introductions thread here; it's generally polite to do so, so we all know a little more about you...especially before you decide to post a rant in response to constructive critisism, which you've actually come on here and asked for

Soho wrote:Dear Michael Jay. You have not been of much help.

That is such a shame you feel that way Soho, as I reckon it was one of the most helpful posts that could have been made.

I don't always agree with everything Michael Jay says, but there is no arguing that he is a very experienced and worldy performer and that has to count for soemthing.

I personally am not quite as experieneced - nor as wordly for that matter (not sure really what wordly means - but it sounds good), but I do agree with him.

Sometimes some groups just don't want to see magic. It IS a ssimple as that. We are entertainers and if we are not being entertaining to that group then the best bet is to find another group.

This doesn't mean you have done anything wrong, so there is no need for you to take it personally (unless it happens all the time - but from what you say I doubt that). Well done for having a go at winning him over, but you do have to know when enough is enough.

Mike was (believe it or not) trying to help.

Once again I have to hark the comments made above.

Now firstly I always find when I approach a table I first introduce myself, ask their names and if they are enjoying their evening. Once this rapport has been set up I then ask if they would like to see some magic, if not then I go away...simple as that.
On several occasions I have come in contact with a situation as above where there was a table of 6 or 7 people and there were two guys openly being 'difficult'. I find that it is best to finish off the effect in hand, be polite and say 'thank you for your time and I hope you have a lovely evening'.
Not much difficulty in that is there?

Finally performing magic is never a magician vs the spectator battle but both work together to enjoy the moment in hand. If you think of it as you getting one over on the spectator then you are no longer in the realm of entertaining but in the realm of massaging your own ego at the expense of you audience.

but I'm not that experience at the moment so what do I know

greedoniz wrote:Finally performing magic is never a magician vs the spectator battle but both work together to enjoy the moment in hand. If you think of it as you getting one over on the spectator then you are no longer in the realm of entertaining but in the realm of massaging your own ego at the expense of you audience.

Amen to that, brother. It's all about the effect, and that means it's all about the audience.

If this happens, try giving him a look that says ' Come on, dont be such a spoil sport ' try to say through your eyes that its only a bit of fun, and you want him to play along.

Let him be an observer, and include him with smiles or eye contact that make him feel like he is on your side of the audience, even though he clearly isnt and has no clue as to how you are acheiveing the things you are. This way, hopefully, he wont need to feel threatened and will get that its just entertainment.

If that doesnt work, go to pay him attention, deliver a rather witty one liner, then completely turn your back on him. I wouldnt focus on trying to win him over though by means of only performing effects for him.

If he doesnt get it, he gets ignored. If he still acts up, he will be the one to look like he is deliverately trying to ruin your act.

if you are going to perform for the alpha male, pull out your strongest effect in arsenal, something along the lines of Sankeys Paperclipped, and blow him away. Then he will have nothing to say as what you are doing is completely beyond him. You can then turn your back on him and it wont be ignoring him as you have already included him.

If all else fails, perform a few quick effects and move on. rapidly!!