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Well, as I say, I am only 15, so 125/hour is a bit much at the moment for me. Also since I am only 15, a pat on the *rse is a bit, whats the word....illegal. So for now, i think i wilkl set my sights a little lower. Thank you all for the advice.

Sorry, I missed all related threads.

I don't see how you can be 15 but a career professional...

A career is your main way of making money.

Magic is mine, as my pocket money is less than I get from magic

I've got no experience whatsoever with this but if and when I come to perform (which I can see being years away yet anyway) wouldn't it be worth doing most of your first gigs for free, get some experience and then when you have a reputation charge a suitable fee?

Money for me would be second the actual performance and if you do get some money then cool, but it wouldn't be my main priority.

I completely agree with you there jbauerctu. When first starting out performing for strangers it is best doing so for free.
Performing for friends, family or down your local is a completely different kettle of fish to approaching strangers at a function and providing a few minutes of entertainment.
There is however no reason why you can't claim expenses for your time, the things you use and a little on top for yourself.

Personally I learnt that when I first started performing at functions/ parties it is unwise to charge until you feel your services are good enough to charge for as we all are invariable not as good as we think.

I am currently undergoing this process myself and my first two or three outings were not great....dont get me wrong the spectators enjoyed it (mostly) and I enjoyed it (mostly) but was there a polished performer doing the rounds those nights? Maybe there was but it wasn't me.

free is the way to go...you're getting lots of experience as the pay-off..don't knock it...even if it's just a quick ten minutes here and there, it's never to be sniffed at...

Out of interest crozboz how many times have you performed for people other than your family??

How did it go?

I'm just interested being new around here and I like to find out peoples experiences.

When I have 2 or 3 tricks perfected I'm going to show friends and family to start off and if something comes of it so be it.

I'm looking forward to their reactions good or bad so I know what to do to improve.

The main way I started 'performing' was for other people at school, not necessarily friends, just people I know, and then sometimes when we go out at the weekend I'll perform for people in bars, just doing simple tricks, nothing complicated. It's good experience: one time I moved from doing a (failed) three card monte scam into a 10 minute routine in a club one time, and there must have been about 20 people watching. I was so nervous.

Great experience though. And luckily I only screwed up once.

To be honest you learn more from one screw up than you would from 10 good performances.
It is the only way to improve and once you've had something go spectacularly wrong it does make you a better performer.

This is why quite a few freebies and oodles of general performance experience are essential before paying as the last thing you need is gaining the reputation of a paid performer who doesn't deliver.

All of the below based upon the fact I've never seen you perform so I am going to presume that you are competent if not totally slick etc etc etc.

I am going to completely disagree with the do it for free route.

I don't perform magic or mentalism in any paid sense although some of my clients get various effects added into what I'm doing for them but that is by the by.

In a 'former life' I provided a much such after lecture service. Initially I provided it on an expenses only basis as I wanted to get the message out and also really loved what I was doing. There was a steady demand. As soon as I started upping the rate - at 18 I was demanding a minimum of £50 an hour (that was <cough> years ago when that would have been more than those on Income Support would get per week. That is not how I worked out the rate; just trying to show that it was not a massive amount but still significant). My bookings soared! People will pay for what they want or need and they perceive quality as reflected in the price. In my case the service I provide one week for some petrol money and a drink was exactly the same as the following week when I demanded the higher amount.

If people don't want to pay or feel it is out of their range they usually won't pay. Some will (they are the ones salesmen love so much). You get a choice to make when someone tells you that your fee is too high. You either stick to your guns or compromise. Quite a few people will meet your demand if they want or made to want your services enough. I'll provide a course in marketing and sales techniques later. What Magicdicoman has suggested is probably what I would say to you. Quote them a price you know is higher than you are actually prepared to work for. They may surprise you and accept that (especially if they have done any homework and know how much an entertainer costs) or may come back with the more usual, "that's more than I thought/can afford" which may be honest or not. A possible for you is to then ask them what they thought would be a fair rate given the (list) things you are able to do and the benefit to their function. Then keep quiet and wait for them to break the silence. You can smile etc but wait for them to reply. Now you have a decsion to make - to accept their offer as is; to accept their offer but add that you will need your travel expenses and food to be added or for you to accept but say that as you would be doing them such a favour you would noty be able to justify the full routine or two hours or whatever. ie If they don't pay full rate they will still be able to get you but it will be a correspondingly cut down performance. What you never do is work for nothing as that effectively means you are subsidising them and saying that you and your skills are worthless.

Minimum wage for someone your age is about £3.45 hr at the moment and that is for unskilled work. You should be looking at charging at least double that as a skilled performer. Up to you whether that is inclusive or exclusive of your proveable or agreed expenses. Even if your parents drive you to and from the venue there is still fuel costs at least to be covered (even if your parents don't hassle you for it, it is nice to at least offer). Fortunately, at your age there is no tax or NI etc to consider and cash is cash.

Exactly how much you are worth is really for you to decide but if you were upset or disappointed with the £6 per hr you have just received you may want to look towards £10 hr. If you can justify it and find people to pay it, go for it. If you only do one booking at £20 an hour it is the same as four at just a fiver. As you are just starting out I'd recommend going for a larger number of gigs at first just to get your name known but only accept the lower rates on condition that the event organiser does not reveal that you've arranged "a very special rate, just for them".

Quite a few people in the charity business make a lot of money my claiming exaggerated expenses, taking a cut on the take etc. Something I really do not agree with. It is however perfectly fair for you to request at least something towards your legitimate costs eg travel, replacement of expendable props used etc. There are a selection of charities I support and I have arrangements with them whereby I provide my time free of charge and (because I am a supporter) I donate back my expenses (NEVER a "fee" re charities) but in return they agree to my using their name in my future promotional work; which actually promotes them too!!! (We both win). Bottom line is that they are going to benefit from your skills so you should not be out of pocket or under-sell yourself.

As mentioned, ensure you have loads of cards to hand out to people or at the very least include a little sales/self promotion in your patter. This is also a great way to increase your exposure and gain free publicity. I know the media in your home area quite well and there is potentially a lot of mileage to made if approached correctly to promote you and the charity. The secret is in the detail but what may at first appear to be a quite small event can be made much of. Consider why so many 'stars' do so much charity work. Many are doing it for all the right reasons but they also know it won't do any harm to their public profile.

In summary. Decide what you believe you are worth. A little research will uncover what similar entertainers in your area are charging and you can then pitch against that. Always ensure you at least get your expenses and you feel the fee reflects what you are providing - if you under or over price it will do your performance no good as you need to be happy with the situation.. It really does not matter if you are a low cost or a high cost act so long as you are happy with your lot. Other performers in your area may not be happy if you undercut them and thereby do them out of work but that is another story. Do not take that just because of your ager you have to be cheap. It's the entertainment value you are selling, not your age or number of yeas in the business. With charities, be selective and ensure they don't abuse your willingness to help them; offer them big discounts or whatever or even waive all fees & expenses but ensure you demand something in return (even if it is not tangible). If they refuse, so what, there will be many hundreds more wanting something for nothing!!! Don't get yourself an early reputation for being cheap or "that Cozboz will always turn up at minimal notice and do his party tricks". Sometimes a Mothers Union is good to practice something new as they will likely only expect a kid doing some daft tricks and being a small group are prime for experimenting (not as bad as something going wrong in front of a large crowd who've paid a lot to see you) but be warned - they WILL talk about you afterwards and nothing beats word of mouth in advertising & marketing circles.

I hope that lot is of some help to you. No doubt others will knock my attitude of expecting something in return for your time and skills, even if its only to negotiate some shared publicity but I hold strongly to the stance that you should never give your services for free, even if no cash changes hands.


ps Do NOT accept or request tips at a charity event - it will do your image no good at all unless all tips are clearly going direct to the charity.

jbauerctu wrote:Out of interest crozboz how many times have you performed for people other than your family??
How did it go?

Well, I've been doing table hopping/close up on a regular basis for 2 years now.

A regular basis is abour 2 evenings a week. This is awkward enough as I am at boarding school monday to saturday.

I have been doing them for free, and so I though 2 years was long enough to start me off charging.

So far *touch wood*, I am proud to say, I have had no major slip ups in a performance.

I spend nearly all of my free time practicing (even GCSE revision time ) so that may have something to do with it.

The only problems I find are while doing the snap card change, (or flick change - whatever, you know the one), and the erdnase colour change (but I think most people have problems with that one - see the post on Embarrasing Moments in Miscellaneous), and occasionally i have had a loose TT, which I have had a few screams from . Other than those, no major problems.

PM sent (Just in case we know each other without realising it. Scary thought.)


I would say that with that amount of experience you should certainly be charging for your time and getting your name known by leaving cards with the diners etc. Very impressed.

Is that a thumb in your soup?

PM replied to.

I have been handing out business cards, but, as happened for the Catholic Mother's Union, people there were shocked to see I was only 15.

This was because the card was passed to someone else, who did not know. They were merely told I was "young". And in a group where the average age was dead, young to them was about 30, so they were a little shocked. Oh well.