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What are we going to do ladies and gentlemen? About what I hear you cry. Well if anyone read my post in the doves head about why people find magic boring its in the “Britain has got talent” thread. You will notice that it was a sort of call to arms and it needs to be answered by all of us. Not just on this forum but all forums. For we the magicians we make the magic and we make bad magic then people will think magic is bad. If we make good magic then people will be all them things we say we are in to magic for “to entertain,. Bewilderment and sheer joy”.


Lets face it there is nothing we can do we are beaten. The public have made up there minds and the nasty man on telly said he didn’t like magicians woe is the Svengali decks. Ok lets be of then I shall take up yoga or something.

Lets not ask what can magic do for us but what can we do for it? A lot of people say because I like to inspire wonder. Well do you? Do you really or do you just perform some lame effect after another for a “well that was good” or do you do the “Oh my god. Did you see that but how?” notice a the difference? Strong effects that’s what you need not a “oh I do tricks want to see something?”. for when we present strong , well thought and logical magic that’s when the real art of magic and bewilderment begins. Lets face it sticking a silk in your hand and making it vanish is not logical and not all that strong its more of a “must be up his sleeve” effect. And the public expect a magician to vanish a hanky which is quite odd because who really carries one now days? Years ago yes this was a strong effect and it is classic but its not the best thing we can do. Now borrow a note and vanish that its more logical and I tell you why. Because it’s a borrowed object and organic well more organic then a hanky. I expect a raft of post saying “but its killer the hanky thing” yes I have done it myself but its not logical. Swap that hank for a bill or even a bill switch. Lets move out from the 20s shall we?
Not to say classical magic is wrong its just a bit dated and needs a rethink.

To inspire the audience this is our main job not hiding the gimmicks not the sleights or the newest face melting effect. Magic is the part of the entertainment industry but its seen 3rd rate. There is many a better cardman, coinman and mentalist then me and I am probably not the most entertaining but I do strive for this when I perform.. Ok perfect sleights and perfect patter etc would be nice but how many of us will get both? Not many I venture. Of course really bad sleights etc are a big no too but so many people concentrate on this rather then there showmanship and become boring. After a while you are having tricks done at you.

Logic
Presentation

And people please routine properly lets face it you do a card trick then all of a sudden you are have 3 little sponges out? Where is the flow. Think of routines even for close-up being in sets of 3 that are logical. Think cups and balls final load deck of cards. Switch the card case and go to put the cards a way then you got rope inside it. Well you get the drift let it flow. Say I want to do a 3 phase mental routine. Here is a list of what I want to do

Looch’s lost in shadow
Peter Nardi’s ES Perfect
Sankeys spoon bend formal affair
Memory lapse
And a 3 way prediction.

So I got 5 pretty strong effects that can work well together but also I don’t want all the longest effects to be in one set. But of course I want them all to be strong. So what am I going to do? Well first off ES Perfect. This sets the mood as to what I do and gives a bit of background in to ESP. now that I have opened up the minds of the spec to this kind of thing. Next is lost in shadow where you case the spec to forget how a coin feels. I have opened up the premise if mental magic and now I am going to explore it a bit more. And of course how about bending a spoon with your mind. Why don’t I do the 3 way prediction because it’s a bit long. Why not memory lapse ? Because one of the principles are the same in formal affair. So there we go putting together a routine of course I hear you cry how can I moan about silks then carry a spoon. Simple people expect so one who does this form of magic to be able to bend thing with there minds.

Logic
Presentation
Routines

Now if we all focused on these 3 key areas magic wouldn’t be called “boring” by that man on the telly. But ponder this the man on telly is right magic is getting to the degree where its boring. And don’t blame all the new people coming in its easy but its not all there fault you get bad magicians who have been in the game years. Because they know it all. The types that will get a trick form the 60s and use patter from then! We are as much to blame as them. In fact more so for not pushing the boundrys and saying to newcomers this is what we strive for. Of course you will get one or two bad magicians who have read only royal road and picked up a few things. Same has you get bad impresionist. Lets raise the bar.

Deep down and everyone knows it and I shall call them a liar if they don’t agree magic is playing around with “toys” gimmicks can be called tools etc but no they are toys. Where do you find magic in a department store? In the toy section and no we cant change this but if we understand that’s the perception people have already toy store stuff we should all be working hard to dispel the myth.



I maybe the only one but even I is losing interest in the art. I know but I think a few others are when they hear “magic is boring” or “Oi Blaine wannabe show us a trick” we have only our selves to blame.
What have I really said here then?

Logic
Presentation
Routines that are strong

See this as a call to arms for we hold the future of magic. Because if we don’t do anything about who will the next generation? Or will they wait for the next one? It us we need to get out of there and raise the bar. I don’t think its impossible or one day magic will be treated like train spotting.

Being in the youngest age group in my school (a freshman in high school) I got a lot of "hey, Blaine wannabe, show us a trick" type of attitude- especially when I'm not the one who offered to show an effect. I dislike the situation, so I avoid performing in a bad environment by saying some witty form of "no".

When It comes to making effects powerful and interesting, I think the issue is one that Craig Browning mentioned in one of his articles ( http://www.online-visions.com/craigbrow ... craig.html I think it's this one) already. The kids these days (yes, this is coming from a kid) don't know style, performance, or language. There's a poseur "me" in my band who not only lacks misdirection and timing (he looked at his hands while sloppily preparing a DL), but lacks decent things to say. "Do you have that card in mind?" he asked ten times while preparing his DL. Granted, he's not nearly into magic as I am, but that shouldn't be an excuse for lousy performances.

Kenton Knepper and Luke Jermay's work on suggestion and language helped me improve a ton when it came to performances and verbal subtleties. I learned that my saying the right things, I can get away with some silly technical methods. Sometimes, I don't even need to use technical methods at all!. If everyone studied Wonder Words during their learning process, I think magic would be seen in a much better light.

Regarding logic and routining, I don't worry about it yet because my repertoire and style allow me to move from one thing to another, stop for a break, and continue with something different. If/When I start professionally (not any time soon, mind you) I'll consider putting more thought into logic of transitions.

What Markdini has written is completely right and very helpful but can telling people what to focus on really help that much. Will people who go on youtube and learn secrets so they can impress their mates with a little something want to focus on it? Unless people really want to get a good presentation down they're not going to bother.

I think one question that needs to be answered is why do people see magic in the way that it has been seen on things like Britains Got Talent with Mr Cowell, who knows that one or two (in the case of X-Factor tens of thousands of) bad singers doesn't mean all hope is lost for music but wont apply that to magic. Perhaps if we can work that out then it may make deciding on what to do to help easier.

(Sorry if that last paragraph was a mess I'm not sure I worded it very well but I'm sure you get my drift )

I posted in the thread in the Doves Head ("Funny hats and wacky waistcoats " ) and I'd like to expand on it here. I've been learning magic for about a year and a half now and obviously don't have much experience, but I can offer the view of someone who was a layman up until fairly recently.

I think a lot of the magic dislike come from the way many magicians present themselves (i.e. the way they look) and a lot of the magicians I saw on 'Britain's Got Talent" only seemed to confirm it. I can't believe that in 2007, magicians still think it's a good idea to wear a 'zany' hat, multi coloured waistcoat and comedy bow tie. There's the old saying, first impressions count...in this day and age no one will take you seriously if you look like the third Chuckle Brother! Every other aspect of entertainment has moved on, why does magic have such a hard time doing so?

Then there's the 'cool' magicians who are anything but. Unless you're Samuel L Jackson, an ankle length leather jacket isn't going to look good on you. Be aware of how you appear to other people, if you're not a naturally stylish person then don't try to be because you won't fool anyone. Take what you have and work with that, expand on your personality rather than trying to make up a completely different one.

To the layman there's an air of cheesiness around magic and many magicians don't do a lot to change that opinion. Look who's famous; Blaine, Derren, Dynamo to a certain degree...what they all have in common is they don't look like the public perception of a magician. No top hats, no magic wands, no wacky outfits. Now since I've started to study magic I know there are magicians who don't fit the stereotype (Sankey, Harris, Sanders) but they're generally unknown the to public at large. Imagine if Sankey had walked onto the stage in front of Simon Cowell. He might have hated his act, he might not, but the fact the he doesn't look like a 'magician' would have done away with any preconceived notions Cowell might have had.

In a just world none of this would matter but we live in extremely shallow, image driven times. It's not fair but it's the way it is. If you're a magician, and you've got leather pants, a billowing white shirt and a platinum blonde, blow dried mullet you can't really expect to appeal to todays audience.

Everyone should read Strong Magic.

Nameless makes some excellent points.

I've just deleted two rather long attempts to post a reply here as I think my views and wanting to play devils advocate would have upset one or two here so but thought better of it.

People still want to be entertained but they also expect professionalism. Some people will get away with presenting magic as back in the 70s, 50's, 20s or earlier; others won't. Not all have to be the latest slick street cred types either. the secret is how you present your personality and your skill. they are the things that audiences go for and appreciate.

The rather too closed, pompous and self-important nature of some within magic does the image and future no good either. With the dawning of ready access to information and changes in cultural thinking those in magic need to play catch up. Stop whining about all those kids exposing stuff on YouTube. Look at it from the other perspective - they are showing an interest in magic. Go out and encourage them and teach them how to do the things properly instead. An element of secrecy is great but other than some forms of mentalism everyone knows there is trickery afoot; they may even have a good idea as how the things are done but they will still be in complete awe of someone with a good personality performing a skill. It is not the style of magic which needs the PR treatment but the way some are a little too precious about it or fail/refuse to see it from an outsiders viewpoint.

Oh dear, attempt number three appears to be hading down the devils advocate and contentious route!

NOTE - Some of the above comments may not correspond with my actual beliefs but parts do!

I think there was a post here a while ago that said one bad musician means he will not get work, one bad magician and we are all out of work.

The format of the show is not particularly suited to mature magical peformance, and the candidates were certainly not very good. Three minutes to create a wow factor is a huge challenge and there are many who fall into the stereotypical mode of magician and audience.

I think what many people fail to really play upon is perhaps a working magicians strongest weapon (this is close up rather than stage).
With other entertainments such as singing and comedy the performer needs to project their act to the whole audience at once therefore missing out on the personal touch. This personal touch and the fact that when performing for an intimate group you can make the effect feel as it is just for them and what is even better, it actually is for that moment.
Get to know you audience there and then, converse with them, use thier name etc. Make them part of the act rather than a mere spectator.
Magic does have a bad name to some and some will never like it ( a fact of life) but if you play to its strengths and avoid it's cliches then your performance will be stronger I'm sure.
And dont confuse a cliche with a classic effect......they are classics for a reason. Their great.....mostly
Finally I would echo the sentiment about Darwin Ortiz 'Strong Magic' which I am currently reading slowly and taking note of every piece of info.

Allow me to expand on this us and them mentality that magicians and audiences have. If we go in with an “I am going to trick them bad” attitude we have already created in our minds an us and them attitude. It shouldn’t be like that the “oh I am so clever “ magician should be dead by now. Its not us and them it should just be us. Take the audience for a ride with you not push them in the opposite way.

Ok allow me to expand on this some what. Any routine must have some form of the audience getting involved the magic should happen in their hands as much as yours. They expect to happen in your hands you are a magician. There is a big difference between “oh he held it and it was gone” compared with “it was in my hand and then it vanished”. The people watching you are as much of the act as the cards and coins you hold. Once you have them on board there is no longer us and them just an us.

Another thing is I find this shuddering when I hear it unless directed to a heckler. “I am going to read your mind it wont take long”. there in that one line you have created an us and them mentality with yourself and the audience. “I am going to try something here, I don’t know how well it will work but would you like to help me? It wont take long” see engaged the audience and brought them all board. And most audience members when you bring them for the ride want it to sucseed it makes you both look good.. Forget I am going to try something and use we are going to try something. And even if an effect goes wrong all ways thank the spec for taking part. Manners cost nothing do they?


I must also echo the last paragraph by greedoniz. Play magic for its strengths and overcome the weaknesses. Be an ambassador of our art if we all take that to heart when the you tube educated “magicians perform a trick. “I saw a guy the other night he amazed us” is what we are aiming for the spec to say to them. Be professional I don’t mean charge but perform like you are serious about the art then maybe just maybe we can take the nails out of the coffin that is magic.

Because if we keep going the way we are its not just the man on TV that will be saying magic is boring. It will be most of the laypeople we will ever meet. Use the audience as a prop. To make your magic stronger.

nameless wrote:If you're a magician, and you've got leather pants, a billowing white shirt and a platinum blonde, blow dried mullet you can't really expect to appeal to todays audience.

So that's where I'm going wrong.

I think the problem is that magic is competing against an image driven world. If you're a bad singer, it doesn't matter, your voice can be tweaked, and with the right marketing you can be successful. As long as you look right.
This cannot be the case in magic. A bad magician can't be tweaked, and so what if he looks good.

Having only been actively pursuing the art of magic for just under a year, I am certainly not the most experienced. However, there are nevertheless one or two points that I would like to raise.

Firstly, I do not think it is fair to say that the "classical" magician is in any way outdated. In fact, choosing to perform dressed with cape, hat and all the other appropriate garments can be very effective indeed as it clearly separates one as being different, perhaps as presenting some kind of authority.. "Can be"? Yes, for this is where one perhaps has to somewhat deviate from the classical sleeving and gimmicked hat programme. If we try to present an "authority" in any sense at all, we must make sure we present something that truly mystifies our audience and what is appropriate to the time and situation. This is not achieved by simply "outtricking" them. But how then is it achieved? This is one of the greatest challenges in magic, to present magic instead of presenting a trick. There undoubtedly is more to that than mere "patter", it needs to be the right words at the right moment in the right atmosphere from the right person to the right audience. Thus a cape and handkerchief may be very appropriate, if used for the right occasion and in the right way and even sleeve and hat tricks are perhaps not so bad afterall, if presented appropriately. But to judge this correctly is something that differentiates the experienced magician from the aspiring student of magic (like myself) who may have got some "Wow!" and "How the..." effects, but whose performances leave the audience wonder about how it was done rather than having them simply enjoy the magic. This is perhaps why classical magic may appear outdated at times - because it is not done correctly.
This, in fact, is already going somewhat into my second point. Something that separates the accomplished performer from the "boring magician" whom the public complains about and who is the reason that magic can be found in the toys section, is that a trick will alienate the audience, they will try to "figure it out" and see you as setting them a challenge, whereas magic will be something you, the performer, and they can enjoy together, that is, you are all on the "same side" in that experience.

Of course, some of what I said may be somewhat generalising. There are undoubtedly some not very experienced magicians who manage to achieve that true magic effect on the audience, while there are others (perhaps too many) who have done performances for many years and whose audience is nevertheless presented with trickery instead of magic.
Magic is an art of communication more than of anything else, a skill that is, as I am personally experiencing, very hard to acquire.

The problem with BGT is that the magicians so far haven't had time to show their true skills as they have so far been judged on their appearance and their introduction.

The result is that by the time they have walked on stage and introduced themselves, the judges have already made their minds up. In addition to this, and as I've posted in another thread, the magicians are really up against it as each failure by a magician adds to the difficulty that the next magician will have in trying to make an even better impressions.

Everyone that has so far been kicked off has not been kicked off due to their magic (although some have), most have been kicked off because of their failure in presenting themselves correctly.

Some really interesting points there.

So much of the problems are in the magician's presentation. As far as Britains Got Talent goes, I personally don't think I'd put any of those magic acts through. There was not flare, originality or imagination there in any of them. Not one grabbed my attention, quite often I found myself sitting there thinking, 'oh come on, get on with it'.

An act is only as good as it's presentation, I've seen technically brilliant magic performed in such a dry way that it's just not entertaining. I've also seen very basic magic performed in such energetic and dynamic ways that it was brilliant to watch.

The first impression an audience gets of you is all important and they way you look is going to have a big effect on this. I wouldn't say that the traditional, magician's top hat and white gloves are out of date, but it all depends on the person. For some people, it would fit very well. The same goes for any style that someone might choose to adopt. It only works, if it fits in with what your doing.

I've got a friend who I work on ideas and routines with. A while ago I gave him a sponge ball routine of mine, choreogaphed to Madness performing Swan Lake. I've seen a few videos of him performing in his front room, in jeans and t-shirts and he's always performed well. But a while back he sent me a video of a performace his did in front of a small audience. He came out dressed in a pin stripe suit and trilby and straight away grabbed my attention. He looked fresh, stylish and exciting. The performace was brilliant, not technically the best I've seen him do but because of his appearance and presentation, it took it up to a different level.

I suppose there is an important distinction between magic being a principally entertaining (clap worthy) and it being magical (emotionally). Darwin Ortiz slates Dariel Fitzkee for asserting that magic has to be dressed up with music, comedy or other entertainment arts in order to make it work.

I imagine the Madness sponge ball routine was very entertaining, but the fact that it required the theatrics seems to imply that the magic needed sugar coating.

Routines like this, and almost the entirety of magic used to entertain children, can be viewed as form of magic which is supplementary to another form entertainment, as opposed being magical in its own right.

They don't generate a sense of magic and wonder that, say, Derren Brown does in his Jonathan and Jane Ross routine or David Blaine performing strange travelers. Yes, it's dry, but it's strong and pure. It's magic.

Maybe it's a reflection of the changes is culture and audience.

I'm waffling now. sorry. Maybe I'm hungry.

I don't think it's so much changes in culture and audience but more to do with the performers style. 'Cheesey magic' as some people call it, can be very entertaining if performed in the correct way. It needs to be over the top and theatrical in order for it to work. A well performed routine can and does look magical and will entertain and amaze.

A lot of people seem to be trying to do theatrical magic but with a Derren type dry and darker style. It's that that's not working in my opinion.