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Hi guys, I'm a newbee on these forums so go easy on me....tried searching but couldn't find what i was looking for....

I've been doing the centre tear for a while now (use the perfected centre tear method) and feel more than happy with the mechanics and presentation...my problem is in the reaction I'm getting. Every time i do an effect that uses the centre tear (whether the tear is done a few effects before the revelation or not) once i reveal the word/number etc.. the reactions i am getting are very poor. None know WHEN i got the info but nearly every single person i do it for almost immeadiately says "you've just read it off that slip of paper at some point....don't knwo when, but you must of".

When asked later alot of these people are really not impressed by the effect (anywhere near as much as the card stuff/sleight of hand), and simply right it off as nothing special.

I hoped i would learn over time what i was doing wrong, that maybe my mechanics weren't good enough, or my wording was wrong, but 1 year later and the reactions are the same. I have worked on this with my collegue (who i perform with sometimes) and we both agree that the mechanics are as near to perfect as they'll get, and the patter should give a small miracle, but still nothing.......

Any ideas on what is going wrong?

Cheers

Simon

PS> i've tried other centre tear techniques as well, in case it was the method i was using.

Put simply, I don't like the centre tear.

It's a prejudice!

I never think there is any real justification for having something written down to then tear it up. It doesn't look as though you are simply reading minds. To use Derren Brown's expression, it's a visual compromise. Even if the specs don't guess the exact method, the fact that you're handling their slip of paper means, in their mind, you could possibly have seen through it or whatever.

There are better and cleaner ways of achieving the same or better effects. In my opinion, anyway.

John

Well the first flaw most likely centers on the fact that you make a big deal about the paper and jotting down the information. This is very typical of magicians in that they are used to drawing attention to the article they are working with -- "See the coin, now watch..." -- with billet work of any kind, the billet don't exist, it is an aid for the participant e.g. any time you (the performer) touch it AFTER they've written on it, there is a reason for suspicion.

There are those in our world that swear by the CT... I'm one of the few that will swear at it, seeing it as one of the least convincing bits of business in the whole of magic but most particularly Mentalism. It is likewise an overly exposed method which makes me ponder even more, why anyone is still using it in the way so many do.

As to how to overcome your problem?

Well, without watching you work I can't give you specifics but I will stress a few points that are most common with folks;

* Don't Make the Billet an Item of Focus
* Don't Rush the Routine -- Time is Your Friend! (within reason)
* Don't Make the Reveal a Word-for-Word Reveal but rather, hint at the information and lead them with enough description that the audience concludes that you have made a hit.
* Don't Do a bunch of Card Tricks before and after this routine and expect people to see it as something Psychic (don't expect people to buy into your mental abilities if you also do a lot of magic.)

There are other factors; your age and the age of those you are dealing with as well as their personality types. Sadly the real world is filled with jerks (male & female) who hate to be fooled and will do everything they can to screw with you no matter what you do or how good you are with the technical side of things.

Look at your people skills in that this is your most potent weapon and tool when it comes to cultivating misdirection, the investment of belief from your audience as well as the psychological acts of detouring them away from the logical assumption (which is where your problem lays).

Of course, there is one other thing you can do...

Learn alternate methods and use them!

I like the centre tear and often use it with really good results.

I think that the secret here is to try to take the specs attention away from the fact that they've just written down something on a piece of paper, dress the whole effect up so that the paper becomes insignificant.

I like to get the spec to write down some fact or what ever and then tear it up and burn it. At this point it get them to concentrate on the fact, picture it in their mind. If you can do this well enough and really draw the patter out convincingly, they'll usually forget that the paper ever existed. Don't ever mention the paper again from this point. Dress it up some more, use tarot cards, crystal ball or some other way to divine the answer. That way you're further drawing away from the importance of the paper and focusing their attention on some red herring explaination.

simon_1890 wrote:PS> i've tried other centre tear techniques as well, in case it was the method i was using.

In that case, it sounds like you might be making it a feature out of tearing up the paper.

I've never liked tears or swamis and that sort of thing. The more of the method there is to see, the less ambiguity there is for the spectator's mind to get lost in when it comes to the revelation. It's partly why I wrote Naked Mentalism - to get away from the usual detritus of method. You can be as slow and as clumsy with a method as you like if it's held entirely in your head. There's literally nothing to see other than mental effort.

you could always use the old db dodge by asking them if theave written or printed it, take the first one back and tear it up and get them to do it again and then burn it themselves.

Another tip, to divert attention from it, is to bring out another prop (such as Weeja) & then focus the routine around that. Something visual and/or spooky will capture their attention an they'll forget about a boring scrap of paper.

The centre tear is one of the most powerful tools in mentalism. The fault is not in the technique but the relationship of the performer to the technique.

You have to make it suit you. Work on it. Use your head and it will come.

I have a method which works very well and unlike the standard wisdom actually focuses on the billet. This will make purist mentalists cringe but since most purist mentalist make other people cringe with their long winded performances anyway it serves them right.

I may post my method on here. I shall see what mood I am in and how you all behave yourselves.

Hmmm I don’t really see the point of doing a centre tear , to gain information. It just don’t seem right to have some one write something down then tear it up why have written in the first place then?
Ok I know that :

Mentalist “write any word down , show it to people so I don’t hear it”
Then you rip it up. But if it is on the paper why rip it up in the first place or worse rip it up and set fire to it just don’t make sense to me. I have seen a few centre tear things , Banacheks, Osterlinds and Ziggs and they have all left me feeling hmm what is the point of getting some one to write It down.

Now on the other hand a good peek like the Richardson’s versatile billet would be better especially if one tucks the billet in to an envelope. And what is wrong with a good old fashioned switch like Eilliot B says in his book “some are tearing , some are peeking few are switching” or words to that effect. Learn a good billet switch and Bob is your dads brother (in my case this is true).

There are those in our world that swear by the CT... I'm one of the few that will swear at it

I got a good chuckle from that!

Anyways, I prefer peeks and switches to the CT. I understand that it can be done well by the likes of Mr. Browning, Lewis, and Zingg, but the experience needed for it to work well makes it less appealing to a newbie to billetwork like myself.

How do you justify having the information written on the center of the billet? When I use acidus, I justify the corner by having "subliminal" nonsense written all over the other 3/4ths of the billet. As a presentation, I say the nonsense influenced them to write the word they wrote.
To obtain info for preshow, though, that wouldn't work. What do you suggest?

Actually Mr Crazy I think its more natural to have it wrote in the centre. Then fold it up so its covered rather then in a peek able place. I don’t like novas either it just seems a bit contrived to me then again I have not really tried it. Time to dig out master billet course one.

I take it from your description you have the 3 panels already with words on then and just one for there word?

No, I came up with my own use for it. I think the peek, though unnatural, seems more natural in the handling than the center tear. Again, I'm new to this, so you're probably right about the position. My question was about how you guys justify the location of the writing.

I see your point what with drawring a line there and a big circle in the middle. I think its Banachek that uses a picture of a book instead. What with words being in books. There you go Crazy try that approach.


I dont really have any justification for it. Just write it on the line or what ever it seems normal to people to have the line in the middle.

I've had the same thing. I too have used the Perfected Center Tear and have had someone 'guess' that I 'must' have read the words, although she admitted she watched me closely the whole time and never saw a thing. Her first guess was that I'd removed the bit with writing (and dug through the ashtray, only to find everything was all present and correct), so that may suggest something to those who use the classic CT, or similar variant!

I offer a few bits of advice.

1. Sometimes people will guess the method without you doing anything wrong. It may simply be the most obvious solution. If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the answer! So, consider ways to ensure that the method you use is either discounted, or simply never enters their head. Easier said than done, in some cases!

1.5. Related to 1, is the fact that some people have to come up with a reason. They might not even believe it, but they like to rationalise away their doubt. Bob Cassidy's big on leaving people nowhere to go; if they can't think of any possible explanation, you should be home free.

2. It helps to have a good reason for destroying the slip. I like the idea of gradually destroying the paper and picking up the information as I go, which is another reason not to like classic CT methods! Other options, like the capitals 'mistake'; work once, but aren't much good for repeated performances.

3. Providing information that isn't on the slip is a big help. Even if you did read it, how did you know that it was Auntie Mabel and that she liked cats? It's a good chance to practise cold reading as, if all else fails, you can simply give the name. Check out, for example, Ted Lesley and Richard Osterlind doing readings from CTs on L&L DVDs; that's where I learned to offer some extra information (luckily, before I ever really tried a CT).

4. Often, a peek or switch will be cleaner and/or more logical.

Don't pay the billet any attention once you have it. It means nothing to you at all. You are obviously giving ample time misdirection as you mentioned that your audience don't know when you've got hold of the information.

Don't reveal the exact word. if the word is something you can draw then draw it. If it is a song title hum it. You could even intentionally miss and dependent on how you are suggesting you're getting the information it can still look staggering. For example if the word is 'oblivion' and through ovserving tonality, ear movement, nasel flair, pupil dilation or any other psycological tells you say "I'm not a hundred percent sure but I think the word is 'olive'.....or 'olive onion' or somthing like that" when they actually say what the word is they will be all the more impressed because you must have been using the methods you said you were using and they'll forget all about the billet.