talkmagic.co.uk

Has anyone bought/used this? The website description is too vague for me to consider buying it - I need more detail. Also, it seems to come in two versions - is the 'bigger' version simply the smaller one with added material that helps with marketing? And, if so, is that marketing material purely American?

Lot of questions there

Thanks

I hear nothing but positive things about this from the pros. It is a useful means to market yourself as you produce a magic square and personalised reading. All the products at MevProShop are great. They do require a strong background knowledge in mentalism.

DrTodd wrote:... They do require a strong background knowledge in mentalism.

Thanks for your reply.

Mentalism or Cold Reading?

My problem with this package is that the description talks about "Magic Square" but doesn't explain what they mean. Is it a knock off version (sorry, embellishment) of Richard Webster's 'Cold reading with Numerology', for example?

I'm aware that this has recommendations - but all those I've seen apparently come from the US (not surprising). I'd really like to talk to someone who has used it.

I have a reasonable knowledge of mentalism and cold reading (Cassidy, Rowlands, Walters, Banachek, Corinda, Knepper, Earle are influences).

Thanks again.

The Omega Pad is a clever Reading system that has built in Marketing advantages for those using it in party type situations or on the side working as a legit Reader.

It is all based on Numerology and the lore surrounding Magic Squares and how they can be used as a talisman, etc. I and I know for a fact, about two dozen of the top guys in this business have been using it since it was introduced and seen fantastic results when it comes to both, business increase as well as personal ability to work the numbers more readily for on the spot Readings.

THIS IS NOT FOR EVERYONE NOR IS IT A MAGIC TRICK! It is a legit Reading system.

Contrary to the whims & wishes of cynics one of the chief skills of a Mentalist is to be a proficient Reader and to use that skill on the side for garnering added income, networking, etc. This is mentioned in numerous older tomes on Mentalism (especially those prior to 1985). Being a solid Reader is a requisite for doing Home Psychic Parties/Astrology Parties, Lady's Night functions and a plethora of other traditional performance systems mentioned by Nelson, Webster, Minch, Hull, Larsen and others our more commercially oriented club date "Mentalism is Just Tricks" types don't want you to know about or doing.

Yes, I get defensive on this point in that I'm watching "that" particular attitude ruin and essentially destroy what Mentalism is supposed to be, robbing from those holding to the old school ways of the craft, the advantage we've used for a bit over a century now -- the invocation of belief from the sitter/audience.

Study your Cassidy and older sources, you'll see what I mean.

Hope this answers your question.

I have a couple of questions about the Omega Pad as well. If Philthebear happens back upon this thread, did you make the purchase and if so, dod it meet your expectations?

I know that the Omega Pad is designed to be a stand-alone system but I was wondering if it could go hand-in-hand with tarot reading by incorporating the numeric value of the cards? If the answer is "Yes", is it then safe to assume that "YOUR NUMBERS Sales Engine" (Your Numbers and You) can be used in conjunction with tarot via the Omega Pad/Matrix as well?

Thanks for any and all help.

I now have this and love it! As Craig says, however, it is not a magic trick. Rather it is a system for providing readings in which personal data from a sitter are used to create an individual reading and a 'take home' item that lets them come back for more!

The manual is brilliant as are the other supplies. You will get hooked on numerology the more you study it, and the Omega Pad is a great way to get started. Lots of possibilities here. I recommend this for those who have spent a lot of time in mentalism and have a good background in using other systems like Tarot to give it fuller impact.

If you then get Craig's Easy Readings, you can see how different systems correspond to one another and develop a syncretic system that works for your own personal style...

.robb. wrote:I have a couple of questions about the Omega Pad as well. If Philthebear happens back upon this thread, did you make the purchase and if so, dod it meet your expectations?

I didn't buy it. Why? Well, I'm in the UK and I'm not sure that it would 'translate' to these shores. A particular problem for me is the way we write dates differently. If I were to present to a 'client' a reading based on MMDDYY (or MMDDYYYY) format dates they would look at me as if I were nuts. It just wouldn't work. And no-one has told me otherwise.

I'm also slightly concerned by Craig's statement "THIS IS NOT FOR EVERYONE NOR IS IT A MAGIC TRICK! It is a legit Reading system."

I don't understand that. What's "legit" about any reading system? If it means that you use numbers to create some kind of message that you pass to the client - fine. But, I'm afraid I think that all such "systems" are (con) tricks anyway.

I can do readings with Tarot Cards / ESP Cards etc. I can use Cold Reading. None of these are in any way 'genuine'. The client may believe otherwise but that's their belief - it's not a fact.

Also, I still haven't really had the 'marketing' element explained - or, what the difference is between the 2 versions.

As I've said before - many people seem to like this but I'm still not convinced.

Phil

I didn't buy it. Why? Well, I'm in the UK and I'm not sure that it would 'translate' to these shores. A particular problem for me is the way we write dates differently. If I were to present to a 'client' a reading based on MMDDYY (or MMDDYYYY) format dates they would look at me as if I were nuts. It just wouldn't work. And no-one has told me otherwise.

Last I checked math was math and a birth date was just that... for someone so well learned in other oracles I'm surprised you aren't aware of what a Life Path number is in Numerology... sorry, but this is just a very weak excuse.

I'm also slightly concerned by Craig's statement "THIS IS NOT FOR EVERYONE NOR IS IT A MAGIC TRICK! It is a legit Reading system."

A "Legit" system is what one uses vs. trickery including but not limited to the myth of Cold/Luke Warm/Hot Readings, billets, imp pads, etc. You are actually using the esoteric system as it was written without all the magic-buff frills.

The only time any of it is a "con-game" is when the person doing the work chooses to make it such. If you are incapable of the sort of empathy required for doing solid Reading work for the more "just" and "humane" reasons people do them, then you shouldn't do them. But just because you have the personal belief that it's all tripe does not mean that this is how the rest of the world views such things... it's strictly your opinion and that of others that have come to said conclusion for one reason or another.

I can do readings with Tarot Cards / ESP Cards etc. I can use Cold Reading. None of these are in any way 'genuine'. The client may believe otherwise but that's their belief - it's not a fact.

For starters Zenner Cards were never intended to be used for divination, that's a game cultivated in recent years by magicians (started with Ray Piatt about 30 years ago, in fact). Secondly, anyone can Read the Cards or Stones by wrote... I can teach anyone to do so based on memorized information or canned spiel as it were; they are after all, a language and once you understand them as such you begin to understand what it means to "Read" the cards or "signs"; both, what you see laying in the spread before you as well as what you are picking up off the sitter... I'm not referring to the little bits of body language offered by the sitter (though that can be an aid) I am referring to their morph-type, face & hand structures and other characteristics used by Readers for sizing up the client.

Also, I still haven't really had the 'marketing' element explained - or, what the difference is between the 2 versions.

The Marketing Angle is simple...you have templates of brochures, a pitch-book and other odds & ends with your name and contact information printed on it that you give to the client at the end of the Reading... it's superior to the traditional business card for what should be logical reasons.

In that I only own the Deluxe and that's all I've ever seen, I can't tell you what the differences are when it comes to the lesser model. I do know that Loren was looking at an even more elaborate "day runner" version of the same at one time which would have been a very powerful tool for those dependent on "tricks" when doing Readings.

You will also note that in my postings @ Loren's site are versions of my Numerology materials that work hand in hand with the Omega System as part of a marketing & promotions generator (as he refers to it).

As I've said before - many people seem to like this but I'm still not convinced.

I think the real bottom line is, you don't want to put in the effort of actually using a tool of this sort to its fullest potential in that it "exploits" the shut-eye market. It's not a magic trick one can show off with but rather a "system" designed for making one money while garnering a positive reputation as a Reader.

Based on comments you've made I can see how that would be a turn-off for you but understand that long prior to the past decade or so, doing Readings was a common aspect to Mentalism and I do mean working in an office or storefront. Anyone that studied the works of Larsen, Nelson or even Richard Webster & Ron Martin in more current times would know this. It is part of the Old School idea behind Mentalism vs. the commercial element we see today that has all but destroyed it (then again, the U.S. version of PHENOMENON more or less did destroy it... especially when a "Magician" wins the bloody contest instead of a MENTALIST). This is why I pointed out that this and most of what Loren offers, ain't for everyone... especially those of the more cynical mind and those seeking a new quick & cool trick vs. something one must apply themselves into in order to make it work.

I'm not picking on you specifically Phil... this is a truth that holds to a greater number of folks that believe they "know" and understand mentalism in today's world but who are oblivious as to how far off the mark they really are... I'm not saying that out of arrogance or the "Elitist" position as some accuse me of doing; this is just how the pros and working jocks of the craft view the trend chasers. Most of us having learned from direct experience, what the differences are and why Mentalism -- the hard core side of it -- has little direct correlation to the ideas and philosophies aligned with stage magic.

I don't mean to be opening a can of worms here, just trying to explain a bit as to why the OMEGA PAD and other products offered through Loren's site are not appropriate to just anyone, most especially the trick addicted magic buff.

Craig Browning wrote:Last I checked math was math and a birth date was just that... for someone so well learned in other oracles I'm surprised you aren't aware of what a Life Path number is in Numerology... sorry, but this is just a very weak excuse.

No Craig - it isn't. I don't need an excuse not to buy a product. From a European point of view the American writing of dates is strange. IF - and I have no idea how you use dates in the product - the date is written in the US format it would not be suitable for a UK audience. Period.

So, when I use a 'birthdate magic square' (which I do) I can present either with a 3x3 square or a 4x4 square. I use a rapid construct method which works (for me) using a DD MM YY or DD MM YYYY date format. That date is written into the square exactly as the client gives it to me. If I reversed the day and month the client would think something was strange - and I don't need that.

The Life Path Number is irrelevant to my objection - because it doesn't matter which date system is used to calculate it. If the system is only based on a Life Path Number then it's way below the system I present in complexity and fullness. (But, again, I don't have a clear description for what the system is, so I'm not claiming that it is).

A "Legit" system is what one uses vs. trickery including but not limited to the myth of Cold/Luke Warm/Hot Readings, billets, imp pads, etc. You are actually using the esoteric system as it was written without all the magic-buff frills.

The only time any of it is a "con-game" is when the person doing the work chooses to make it such. If you are incapable of the sort of empathy required for doing solid Reading work for the more "just" and "humane" reasons people do them, then you shouldn't do them. But just because you have the personal belief that it's all tripe does not mean that this is how the rest of the world views such things... it's strictly your opinion and that of others that have come to said conclusion for one reason or another.

Sorry Craig - but there is ZERO evidence that numerology (or astrology or any of the many other divination systems with which I'm sure you are familiar) actually has any evidential basis in fact. Therefore, ALL of these things are either part of an individual's belief system or he/she regards them as fakery. When I present, I do so with a clear warning that what I'm presenting is for entertainment reasons only. I never claim that what I'm telling someone is "true". If they want to believe it - that's up to them but I don't and won't tell them that my readings are anything other than the product of my brain. I consider that anything else is completely unethical.

As a side note - I have an extensive library of books I've studied on Astrology, including Vedic and Chinese, Tarot, Runes, Numerology, Tea Leaf reading, Mediumship, etc. I also have a collection of Astrology software which cost, in today's terms, about $10,000. So, I think I'm fairly well up on the various theories. But I stand shoulder to shoulder with Randi on this - show me proof.

For starters Zenner Cards were never intended to be used for divination, that's a game cultivated in recent years by magicians (started with Ray Piatt about 30 years ago, in fact). Secondly, anyone can Read the Cards or Stones by wrote... I can teach anyone to do so based on memorized information or canned spiel as it were; they are after all, a language and once you understand them as such you begin to understand what it means to "Read" the cards or "signs"; both, what you see laying in the spread before you as well as what you are picking up off the sitter... I'm not referring to the little bits of body language offered by the sitter (though that can be an aid) I am referring to their morph-type, face & hand structures and other characteristics used by Readers for sizing up the client.

Indeed, Zenner Cards were originally used to demonstrate ESP - and I use them to 'demonstrate' that I can 'read' the client's mind by telling them exactly which cards they are choosing. Very powerful convincer when I then read a Tarot layout with the cards face down....

And you are right - reading cards (or anything else) by rote is simple. Which is why I offer my clients much more.

I think the real bottom line is, you don't want to put in the effort of actually using a tool of this sort to its fullest potential in that it "exploits" the shut-eye market. It's not a magic trick one can show off with but rather a "system" designed for making one money while garnering a positive reputation as a Reader.

And I think that's where we part company. I'm not interested in trying to convince anyone I'm a genuine 'reader'. Why should I be? I don't believe that such a person exists.

My impression of the Omega pad - before these latest posts - and, now that you've added your observations is that it's use is to sell my act to the gullible. I don't want to do that.

<snip>

Most of us having learned from direct experience, what the differences are and why Mentalism -- the hard core side of it -- has little direct correlation to the ideas and philosophies aligned with stage magic.

I see where you are coming from in that you are viewing 'stage magic' as a physical craft. But much historical stage magic has a mentalist background.

And, on that note, I wish you all a Happy New Year

PhiltheBear wrote:No Craig - it isn't. I don't need an excuse not to buy a product. From a European point of view the American writing of dates is strange. IF - and I have no idea how you use dates in the product - the date is written in the US format it would not be suitable for a UK audience. Period.

I disagree. I think you could do that easily and get away with it. But it seems you are against the product and that's fine.

As for your other comments...hang on for the ride