ok, I may need to run away from this thread...it wasnt until I read the comments and did some research into some of the tricks mentioned (looked at the 'spectator finds aces' trick with review - cheers for that michael

) and can honestly say I had no idea how many self workers there are out there - did a bit of a bad thing and looked on youtube and some other vid sites and found some amazing routines performed at weddings, in bars etc and (from the videos I saw) it seemed that often tricks where the spectator did all the 'magic' without the magician even touching the deck / props the reaction was WAY better than any trick involving a false shuffle / 'obvious' slieghts.
Mind you, I do stick by my guns and say most of the math based 'now we add 7 cards to this pile, the count 4 more, then do this then do that' tricks which contain loads of pointless moves and counting techniques are AWFUL...no mater of the presentation (unless you REALLY can sell the trick...but personally I would rather keep the trick quick and simple)
keep the thoughts coming though
Dan