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Don't worry beeno, I thought I understood before but now I'm totally lost

Card to mouth was an example. Not the whole point of the thread.

In a nutshell though...misdirection is a fabulous weapon in our armoury, but it should not be the effect i.e. "you know that the card is going to end up in my mouth, but hey you still didn't see me put it there".

I'll also refer you back to one of my earlier posts about how Derren Brown uses the watch steal. He turns it from a misdirection/pick pocket routine into something completely magical with absolutely no explanation.

Whether it's magical is down to personal opinion hence the title "It's clever...but is it magic". My opinion is that it is not. The bigger debate is how we use misdirection to achieve something magical...I think? I think misdirection can be used to much greater effect if used subtley.

AndyRegs wrote:With an effect such as card to mouth, the specs beliefs about how it was achieved ('he put it in his mouth when I wasn't looking) are true. It may be entertaining, but is this magic?

Beeno...

I qualified in my monologue that if it's done as the blatantly obvious way, then no, it's not magic. However, if done as part of a routine, or done in a way whereby there's no way it is possible, then sure—it can be counted as magic.

However... I didn't AGREE that it SHOULD be. I was offering two extremes for question.

Andy's point would seem to be that misdirection can be the ONLY explanation in some cases, and in those cases, is it really magic, or is it just clever?

In Panto, for years and years, the old 'he's behind you' gag has slayed audiences. When the principal character turns round, the baddie ducks, or whatever, and is hidden from view—often using misdirection. It's nothing magical at all.

In a previous post, I tried to show the relationship between misdirection, distraction and magic.

We use distraction or are subject to it every day. I am distracted now, for instance—I should be working!

Distraction can be purposeful or accidental, or circumstantial.

However, misdirection is a kind of forced distraction... it's distraction for a specific purpose.

In magic, misdirection's only purpose is to hide or conceal the workings of an effect. If misdirection is the obvious conclusion to the mechanics of a trick, then surely there's no magic there, as the only magic happening is the deceit of the misdirection.

My own opinion is yes—misdirection is magical, but not on it's own. It's a PART of magic.

Now you're really confusing me.
So misdirection is magical if Derren does it, but not me or you?
And with card to mouth, the spec NEVER should know that the card is going to end up in your mouth.

So misdirection is magical if Derren does it, but not me or you?

No, it was an example of how misdirection can be used to create magic.

Consider two options:

A) The usual watch steal, as part of a larger routine, where the the watch is given back at the end of the routine. The first thought in a spectator will be 'How did he take that off me without me noticing'?

B) The example given, where a spectator thinks of an item (their watch) which they believe is at home, and it appears in their hands. The first thought of the spec..."Wha tha F..."

beeno wrote:And with card to mouth, the spec NEVER should know that the card is going to end up in your mouth.

That lost me too, the spec should never know what's going to happen in ANY trick (apart from the very rare exception of course)

Ever feel that we're going round in circles?

Lady of Mystery wrote:

beeno wrote:And with card to mouth, the spec NEVER should know that the card is going to end up in your mouth.

That lost me too, the spec should never know what's going to happen in ANY trick (apart from the very rare exception of course)

This is the whole point... if misdirection is the ONLY SOLUTION and it's an OBVIOUS solution, then it's not skill, sleight of hand, illusion or magic... it was simply done while the spec wasn't looking!

Time to turn the key.....?

go on, go for it Mandrake

klikkkkkkk!