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I was wandering how you present your effects- do you give the impression that your props are magical, or do you give the impression that your props are "normal" and you are magically making them do things? For example, in doing eg. a square circle production routine, would you present the boxes as normal, and the production of silks etc is down to your magical powers? Or would you present the boxes themselves as magical, and that you are merely demonstrating what they can do? I'm sure that many (including myself) use a bit of both, as eg. patter with an Ambitious card routine usually presents the cards themselves as magical, whereas a cups and balls routine usually involves you "doing the magic". Anyway, I'm waffling a bit now so I'll leave it at that. Hope you all get what I mean and am looking forward to reading your replies...

What i am about to say will probably cause a Talk Magic war but i will say it anyway

The tricks (i hate that word!) or effects you buy are simply tools, nothing more. They get the job done. It is you as the performer that make things special, you make the magic happen. The presentation of the effects is all down to you, after all you are the magician, not a deck of cards. You create an illusion (pun intended) that you can make magical things happen, you have power over objects. You can make cards change and object move. It is all down to you.

To quote the great late Tommy Wonder "I became a magican to find out how i do these things"

stephenmagic wrote:What I am about to say will probably cause a Talk Magic war but I will say it anyway

The tricks (I hate that word!) or effects you buy are simply tools, nothing more. They get the job done. It is you as the performer that make things special, you make the magic happen. The presentation of the effects is all down to you, after all you are the magician, not a deck of cards. You create an illusion (pun intended) that you can make magical things happen, you have power over objects. You can make cards change and object move. It is all down to you.

That's fair enough, and I'm not going to argue with someone that's had A LOT more experience in the world of magic than I have, but surely there is more than one way of presenting an effect. Take the ambitious card, when the card is revealed to still be on top, would you present it as "but the card jumps to the top" or "and with a wave of my hand I bring the card back to the top". The former example implying that the card itself is "magical" and the latter implying that you are "making the magic happen" I don't deny that it is down to the magician to create the effect, but surely there is more than one way to present an effect, and it is down to the particular magician as to which one he/she uses?

yes you are right, but that is how i see most magic. Of course in bizarre magick i claim props are cursed or magicial because i am telling a story so there are exceptions. I think everyone will have different views and that is what i love about magic.

That is a really good question you set, can't wait to hear from the others

There are plenty of routines, especially 'bizarre' ones about haunted tobacco pouches, or strange dolls that move by themselves. Sometimes an effect is more powerful because the performer disassociates himself from it.

Imagine this:

"Here is an old knife, said to belong to the legendary Jack the Ripper. In spite of its age, it never goes rusty or dull. It's still razor sharp. Some say the blade is still haunted by his spirit. But that's nonsense, because I am the magician and I am the one with the power round here! See how it moves under my willpower! Mwahahaha!"

I've deliberately exaggerated that and I'm sure no one would ever say anything so daft, but I think there's room for objects and artifacts to be portrayed as magical.

There's a separate issue about whether props are magical in the sense of them being gimmicked/tricky. To use cymru1991's example, I would think long and hard about making out that the Square Circle had magical properties of its own.

My turn to be controvertial

Presentation is everything, I agree 130%

However, imagine you have the greatest presentation possible, and you go into your routine....and suddenly..... all of your props vanish!

Unless you're a mentalist, you're now just a well-turned out chappie or chapess, with a good line in acting and patter

And - no - for the sake of this example, you can't borrow items from your audience

So, my vote had to be a 'bit of both', though - in fairness - if the category had been there, I'd have gone for:

Props: 20%
Me: 110%

"yes you are right, but that is how I see most magic. Of course in bizarre magick I claim props are cursed or magicial because I am telling a story so there are exceptions. I think everyone will have different views and that is what I love about magic."



I agree. At the end of the day, it will come down to the persona and opinions of the magician in question, and that is what makes magic so versatile- that the same effect can be "re-dressed" and practically made completely different to suit the tastes of the particular magician.

(slightly off topic I know, but thought I'd post it anyway to re-iterate a point)

great point. Of course a good example is the haunted key. Some people do it as mind people (like a well know psychic who we can't name!) and some do it as a possessed prop.

A good question, and one to provoke various answers.

I've said before, anyone can buy, or learn a trick, and become a magician. But becoming a performer is different to becoming a magician, and I think that was what Stephen was intimating in his posts.

Its one thing to perform a trick, its another thing to manipulate, control and entertain your audience. My view, achieving the first makes you a magician, the second, a performer and/or entertainer.

Many people perform magic tricks on YouTube type forums,but it doesn't make them performers. In fact, if they actually went out and performed for the public instead of sitting and recording in their bedroom they might realise the enjoyment of being a performer and stop giving away how they do the damn tricks !!

A good post to incite discussion !!

There has been a lot said that I agree with but my opinion is that the audience make the magic as there is nothing without them.

It's not a matter of how you see magic - what counts is how your audience see it.

dat8962 wrote

It's not a matter of how you see magic - what counts is how your audience see it.

brilliant quote, a truth which we all forget at times and would do well to remember.
As for the question, well I use one of those wooden card ducks and I have to belive that he is a real live duck in order for the performance to work. I also have a magic silk which I have to hype up as extreamly magical to the point of dangerouse. Both are commody routines and of course nobody belives for one minute that they are magical except me, which is how it must work.

My 40+ sister in law once shouted out very harshly "your making him do that" too which I answerd " madam this may come as a shock to you but [wisper] it's not a real duck".

ps I don't think I have ever said that I am magical, but by virtue of being a magician surly they are going to think this. There are a few people who have looked and talked very strangly to me after cetain effects who no matter how I tell otherwise belive I have "some sort of power"

I agree with Dat here. The AUDIENCE make a lot of the magic happen.

You could perform the best effect in the world to a bad audience, and they'd still not 'get it'.

As a spectator, I find that 90% of the magic comes with the actual skill/performance, and 10% from the actual props/effect. A good case in point (as I mention again) is the cups and balls routine from the end of Ricky Jay's '52 assistants' vid. And, the recently spoken of Zamiels' Rose routine from Derrens 'Devils Picturebook'.
Both of these effects look AWFUL in the wrong hands I am sure. But when the performance is right, the mood is set, and the effect is in full swing, they are materpieces.

As a performer, I find that if I'm using props or gimmicks, I try and learn as much about them as I can. Handle them, play with them. In some case, wear them out practicing (I did this with both Strange Travellers and NFW), so to actually perform I've had to buy new ones.
I find that once I'm comfortable with the props, I can unleash a performance which I feel comfortable too.
Imagine it like a learner driver... everything is new, and so many things are going on at once—gear change, indicate, break-clutch-accellerate pedals, not to mention steering, keeping an eye on the road, keeping position etc.
A learner driver looks positively petrified and very uneasy in a car, for a good few tries.
But a couple of years after passing the test, there's a lot more relaxation, and things like mirror/signal/manouver, changing gear and road watching are just like reflex reactions. The driver is then a little more at ease to relax and enjoy the drive.

I think it's this familiarity with the items which help me 'make the magic' which lets me feel like I am achieving something. So from a performer's point of view, I believe that yes—I HAVE created a magical moment.

From the spectator's point of view, I want them to see me as someone entertaining, with skills, who has just made them think a bit harder about what they just saw. So long as they are entertained, and suitably happy, I feel the job is done. I don't WANT them to think I am a 'real' magician/mindreader/clairvoyant. I simply want them to be entertained.

As for the question "What is magical, you or your props?"... I would estimate that 85% of what I do when I do actually perform is pretty much unique to me, and the rest is done with gimmicks and my OWN presentations.

Much like a recent post on here which described someone seeing a TT effect, and not even KNOWING it was a TT effect—even though they were familiar with the principle. That's purely down to the performer—not the gimmick.

Performers need to think outside the box, really. If you base a whole show on off-the-shelf props and gimmicks, you stand more chance of failing. I would say nearly all GOOD magicians use mainly their own/original work on stage or at shows.

A very interesting question and some very interested points made too.

Personally for me, I'd say I do a bit of a mix of both depending on the routine that I'm doing. Quite a few effects of mine I present differently, on that I do involved an image appearing in a previously empty photo frame. Depending on the routine I might present it with me mentally projecting the image to the frame and another time I might present it as the photo frame being haunted.

The presentation is very important as has been said, without a good, fluid presentation the effect will just look wooden. The magic is made by a good presentation.

I think a performance is better when you single yourself out as something special. When you present in a way that shows the props are special, I think less attention is given to the magician. And aren't we attention seekers?

I think that if you try to appear as someone who is special then people will spend their time trying to catch you out to prove that you are not special. In doing this, they see little magic and think of your routine merely as a challenge.

I also think that making props appear special just instantly makes the audience think 'gimmick'.

The secret is to make EVERYTHING look normal and therefore unsuspicious. That's when the magic begins to happen as you have left no logical explanation as to how something that they have just watched really happened.