talkmagic.co.uk

Hi all, did a stage show the other day and did a quick rope penetration through neck trick/gag. I talked about holes, how you can't have half a hole, you can only have a whole hole etc. Then I got a guy at the front table to come to the front of the stage and examine it. He was not keen and when he arrived and I handed him nothing to examine he said "so now what? " in a very huffy voice. I told him to hold it up to light to make sure he could see through it.
I thanked him, he turns round, I hold it up to the light, and ask him back to the stage. "this is not my hole" I said."Can I have my hole back" and gave him the hole back, then picked up a new hole."thank you" and I went on with the trick.
Now the guy was so huffy, that I could have not done the "this is not my hole bit" but I knew that as everyone there new each other that going this extra bit was gold to the rest of them. I knew that they knew he was a bit of a pain sometimes (by the fact that he was huffy)and loved me making him come back. {cheering banging and laughing etc and this from an audience between 60 and 95 years old}
So you could say the trick went well

The guy sat there cross armed sulking for the rest of the show. In the end I had to choose all my specs from the other side of the hall as I started to feel awful about it. Afterwards I did the whole "thank you you were great" and offered my hand to which I got "um thanks yes fine" but no handshake.


So finally my question is

Is there any apology ettiquette if you feel youve gone to far etc
things to watch out for etc
Is it ok to sacrafice one member of the audience for the other 99

In my opinion, I'd say you should NEVER sacrifice one member of the audience for the sake of the other 99% I might only do this in the case that if the spec in question is being awkward, but I would still think twice about it. The way I look at it, everyone in that particular room have paid their entrance money/bothered to turn up, so my goal is to send them all home at the end with good memories, and I would be unhappy if one or more went home having not enjoyed the show (which I assume that this man did). As for things to watch out for, then I suppose that if someone looks a bit reluctant to come up, then it is best just to pick someone else instead. Perhaps throw a ball or giant fluffy dice out to the audience, and the one that catches it comes up to help? As for an "apology ettiquette", I really can't help you there.
I understand your predicament, and the best thing to do is to put it down to experiance. You can't satisfy all of the people all of the time.

Connor my first instinct was that this guy might've felt a bit silly, you know, examining a 'hole' and all that.

It reminds me a bit of the ID routine. Ask a spec to examine and shuffle a deck of cards, and they'll be fine. Ask them to do exactly the same thing with an ID and it's totally different. They start to laugh nervously and some even turn a bit pink. Why? Hmm. Well I think it's because you're now asking the spec to 'play act' a bit - something that they may not have done for most of their adult lives, and now for the first time in decades front of an audience. Naturally if this guy had a reputation for being a bit of a cynic or what-have-you then he's probably not going to drop the facade on stage.

Secondly, why was this mysery at magic show? You mentioned that the audience was all 60 to 90 year olds. Was it at an old folks home? This would mean I suppose that he was 'captive audience' to a point, and his cynicism may not have been directed squarely at you. Even so there's no excuse for his impoliteness, even if he was a bit embarrassed.

For what it's worth Connor, my opinion: If this guy made it obvious that he was not keen to come up, then I think perhaps you did push him a leeedle bit too far to come onstage. If he came up with no fuss and then acted like he did, then he deserved all he got, perhaps even to the benefit of the other 99%. Which to be quite honest, wasn't too cruel really. I wouldn't lose any sleep.

Here's an idea. Forgive my inexperience on this one since I have rarely performed magic for more than say, ten people, but if I come across someone like this who refuses to take part (and I'm not talking the giggling embarrassed ""eeh no" type -- but the arms crossed ar*e-face) then I quite often get THEM to choose the person who WILL take part. Therefore they automatically become involved with the show, taking the edge of their stagefright. They also get a bit of responsibility which shuts them up, and it lets them have a way out. Bingo, they come away with a positive experience. Then of course the next person is less likely to play the cynic, since that character has already made an appearance. Not foolproof, but it has worked.

the gig was for an end of season bash for a club that does sports for the elderly. So they were not the delicate type that you get in care/nursing homes. I was but one part in a variety show.
Had a huge problem with spec putting up their hands. Out of the whole audience I had just two volunteers, and I needed three for a particular trick. The two volunteers were on the left so I told the right hand side they were being outdone and another 1 hand went up on that side.
They were enjoying the show. I had a couple of freindlys there who critic my shows and they are usualy very hard with their feedback which is what I want.
I therefore looked for someone who appeared to be taking an interest from the front two tables.
I think this was the mistake. But then again I did not have an option.
All the others I used loved to be chosen so perhaps it was just bad luck.
Just for the record I don't belive that 1 can be sacraficed for the rest, I just put this question in to see what the responce would be from some with more experience.

Thanks for your replies, I won't loose any sleep, and I think I may have gone too far with the last 'this is not MY hole' bit.

Spec choice seems to be a whole feild of magic in itself

Spec choice is something that really needs to be considered.
At both ends of the spectrum, you can have trouble. The ones who really don't want to partcipate can ruin an effect as do the show offs who will try to upstage you.
There is a certain type of spec that is ideal and it's a knack you will aquire in knowing the best ones to choose. When I ask someone to come on stage I always shake their hand and give them direct eye contact and help them up by putting my hand on their elbow. This relaxes people and also exerts the degree of authority you need as a performer as an out of control spec is just as much a nightmare as a non-responsive one.
Performing hypnosis also requires a lot of choosing the perfect spec, the most succeptible and magic is the same. There are people who have a fascinated look on their face which shows you that they are interested in what you're doing a great deal and these kind of people provide the best reaction to the effects climax.
The person onstage needs to have a good reaction as it will often affect the audiences perception of what you have just done. If someone has an unimpressed response to what you are doing, then the audience may follow suit as they are watching and not participting directly. An audience responds to what they are watching on stage.

If someone quite clearly doesn't want to partcipate on stage for whatever reason whether it be shyness, self conciousness or the fact they are a miserable c**t, then I avoid them as I would a Robbie Williams concert.

I have been pretty good at choosing kids for specs, but mainly this is due to David kayes writtings on the subject and the fact that there are many volunteers at a kids show, which allows you some scope to choose.
I tried this with the adult audience and read them completely wrong. OK I only had two and then with some manipulation three, proper hands up volunteers but the fact remains the same that I did not choose correctly or sculpt my act in accordance.

Lord fredie wrote

The person onstage needs to have a good reaction as it will often affect the audiences perception of what you have just done

which is what I want, he continues

There are people who have a fascinated look on their face which shows you that they are interested in what you're doing a great deal and these kind of people provide the best reaction to the effects climax.

which is all good stuff, but with just three......
Is it possible to cajole these people into putting their hands up or just gently forcing them to the stage.
Anyone know of a book or dvd that has at least some good references in it on this subject?

my thanks to the replies I have already got

The things I have read on the subject (sorry, I can't remember where) have usually recommended that you don't ask for volunteers. Pick people who like like they might be suitable.

If you ask for volunteers, there are two big risks. First, there's a good chance that you'll get the idiots and big-heads coming up on stage, the very last people you want. Second, you can be faced with situations where only very few people put their hands up.

However, do not embarrass your audience. If you are 'volunteering' people to join you on stage, treat them with respect. That doesn't mean you can't have a bit of fun with them, but people may have seen magicians whose acts rely on making spectators look stupid. Is it any wonder it's hard to get volunteers?

Connor 'o' Connor (great name by the way), may I recommend Win The Crowd by Steve Cohen for advice on how you present yourself and controlling specs. It's a great book with lots of useful info which I'm sure you'd find to your benefit. And it's very cheap on Amazon too.
Experience will also give you an inbuilt mechanism for knowing which specs are the best. There are certain kinds of people that I would choose if I was filming something as their reaction is more OTT than most. (Think of David Blaine's specs)

Books on hypnosis and suggestion have a fair amount of choosing the right people which can also apply to magic and using suggestion is very powerful in magic even if hypnosis is not your thing.