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I was wondering if it's wrong to give the impression that a trick is something it's not? Due to the confusion I'm sure this question will arise, I'll give an example. Every time I perform my Sven routine, I start with the line "Do you believe the hand is quicker than the eye?" I then proceed to do trick after trick, asking from time to time "did you see that", as if to imply that I'm performing some slight of hand instead of using a gaffed deck. I do this to draw attention away from the idea of a trick deck, not to boost my own ego, so I don't think it's wrong, but give me your opinion on it. Is this wrong or not?

JAlexBrown

You mean in the same way that a mind reader can use a stooge in an effect, yet tell everyone that it is genuine telepathy?

Or perhaps telling everyone that the card trick you've just performed did actually involve some kind of magic? That's a blatant lie also.

Hmm, tricky one. Is there actually a fundamental difference between the two?

Well I think the first one is wrong, but the second (including your sven routine) is fine.

Why? I have absolutely no idea.

A "magic trick". Is that an oxymoron?


I suspect that this subject has come up once or twice before.

If I did this to boost my ego and just make people think I was a better magician than I really am, then I would say this is wrong. However, doing this in the context of trying to cover up my method, I personally don't see what's wrong with what I'm doing. It's patter...nothing more, nothing less. It's a distraction that keeps the spec from dwelling on your every move until they know how you do it. I think it's total just, but that's just my two cents. Who wants to be the next one on the ol' soap box for a few minutes?

JAlexBrown

It's all a part of presentation.
when mentalists read your mind, they don't actually read your mind, and everyone knows it. Yet they still say it. It's all good.

OK, magicians are known for Deception. So go with it. If your patter works, keep it. But try changing it a little every few months, just to keep the audeince from revealing the trick.

Even in other tricks, and methods of perfroming the tricks, we deceive the audience without the patter (E.G. Palming), so the patter is just to add more effect, and convince the audience even more.


By the fact you are asking it, you don't feel totally comfortable with qhat some people see as lying. Am i right there?

As magicians, we manipulate not only cards and coins, but the minds of our audiences. We're essentially paid to lie--it's called "misdirection." It's not wrong in any way. Do a "mind reading" effect with a cross-cut f**** and a memorized s**** and reveal it as sleight of hand and it's silly and disappointing. Really "read their minds" instead and it's a miracle.

If you're worried about the ethics of doing one thing and saying another, you're in the wrong business, mon ami.

Ciao,
Rob

All tricks are something they are not!

That's part of the whole point and why presentation, misdirection etc. is so important.

We're performing something that is meant to appear to our audience as if there is no reasonable explanation for what they saw happen. How this is achieved is another matter and it makes no difference whether you use a gaff deck, a self working gimmick or sleight of hand.

What matters is that your audience don't see, or work out how you achieved it.

If the person you were performing for enjoyed it and was entertained - then it's right!

Singers croon about how they love you or someone, actors speak words written by others in front of only half a room or other TV/film/stage set etc and even though we all know it's not real, we go along for the ride to be entertained. Magic is exactly the same - entertainment.

There's nothing wrong with it at all, it's all part of your performance. There's actually a trick which does almost the same thing that you're doing in Royal Road.

I've got a trick that I present as a demonstration of muscle reading, in fact it's nothing more than a very simple card trick.

I don't feel bad about lieing to my audience (if, in fact, lieing is really as much what I'm doing as...entertaining, perhaps, if I may use that word instead). I'm just curious as to rather or not there is any rule in this unspoken magician's code which states that this behavior is wrong.

JAlexBrown

It also adds to the effect. If you can make somone beleive that it actually is magic and stop them from asking you (or themselves) "how did he do that" then you have gone so much farther to entertain them.

donkeylord wrote:It also adds to the effect. If you can make somone beleive that it actually is magic and stop them from asking you (or themselves) "how did he do that" then you have gone so much farther to entertain them.

They still do go "how did that happen" though.

I use the sponge balls with different patter. One time i may talk about how spirits are controling the balls, and it is out of our control. Whilist another time I may just say that it was purely an illusion, and the ball did not go into X place, but did infact go into your hand. (X being where ever you put the ball that disaapears)

It is the same trick, but different patter. Means that you can perform it to the sameperson twice, and they are still non the wiser.

I'm a magician, I decieve for entertainment purposes. Heck I take credit for miracles people swear I perform when I didn't do any such thing. I can't tell you how many times people have told me how they remember when I did card on ceiling and they only 'thought' of the card. I heard one person tell his buddy that I never even touched the deck, that I handed him a sealed deck, he looked through the cards and threw them to the ceiling under my direction. Did I correct him? not a chance! So I really don't think what you are doing is incorrect.

I do however love the ethical debates on magic.

Many magic tricks are basically the same though. I mean think of all the, pick a card any card, is this your card? tricks. Patter and the fibs you tell with them is what makes them magic.