talkmagic.co.uk

Hey Guys,

Ive just seen your post about banning exposure. Ive noticed recently many videos on youtube (some copyrighted material too) exposing how tricks are done to the general public.

These secrets have been kept in close circles and minorities of magicians and card sharks/hustlers for hundreds of years.

Now there on youtube!!!!

I think its good you guys are doing something to try and stop it.

Is there a way we can complain to youtube about the video like "flag as innapropriate" (bad spelling).???

I am sure if we all operated in groups we could make a difference.


Would anyone like to volenteer to dress up like houdini and chain yourself upside down outside buckingham palace in protest?


This is a very upsetting time for magic, especially all us young guys who plan on doing magic for a living. Exposure to the public does ruin things, maybe the internet would be better if regulated (cant believe i agree with elton john). We cant let this ancient art be ruined, it takes away the entertainment, people become obsessed with "c*** (not the best) yeah i know how to do that".

Benji

I'm afraid there is practically nothing anyone can do.

The internet has indeed exposed all the secrets of magic to anyone who wishes to know.

Even the big powerful music and film companies are helpless.

You can blame youtube but there are many more sites like this.

Specialist web sites aimed at magic exposure are easy to find too.

Biggest problem is the torrent sites.You can near enough find any Ellusionist and Penguin magic release there is as these are popular by the younger generation.

They also have nearly every magic dvd or video released ever in there for download and near enough every magic book available in a pdf. format that has been scanned and uploaded for people to downlaod.

Sorry to sound bleak but that is the state of magic exposure there is these days and i for one wouldn't want to make a career out of it.

Very sad i know as it's taken the mystery out of magic.

Theres still many mysteries out there, especially in old material, you know the rare stuff, that even magic store owners find it hard to find.

Theres lots out there, maybe some of the people downloading the DVD rips are genuinly interested in learning magic as an art.

But on youtube people might just search "magic tricks" to watch and be entertained, instead get a load of secrets and bad performances.

Its annoying, the internet has benefited us so much, but this is one area its messed up. There is no secrets been revealed when people download music or hollywood films (the companies who make a fortune anyway...) but centuries old secrets are revealed when people download magic. (which is a relativly small niche market compared to music and movies).

So its annoying

Doubt there is anything we can do, except become great entertainers and bring back more peoples love of watching magic / close up entertainment.

Because it is great, alot of people of all ages are missing out.

I don't think all is lost in youtube exposing etc.
Due to the fact that If I performed a random effect on a spectator, lets say In A Flash by Jay Sankey. As long as I don't say this is an effect called 'In A Flash' people could try and search for the effect on youtube e.t.c after I've performed it and they will have little chance of finding it. What would they search for? Magic, Cards, Burning, Cool Trick, Explanation.

However I do worry for manufacturers of tricks. People may be able to see a trick that they like and instead of buying it search the internet for an explanation. This not only harms the manufacturers but it also harms magicians in 2 ways:

1. The obvious one, if manufacturers don't make any money from selling effects then why would they produce future effects?

2. If someone learns a magic trick from youtube then the quality of the performance is likley to be extremley poor. Then anyone who learns from this will learn the trick to a poor standard. They will then perform the trick to other people. The trick will be performed with lack of practise and chances are the performer will be exposed. This then creates a dislike for magicians which is very hard to erase.

It is bad for the magic shops losing money, and the quality of performances on youtube generally is really bad.

Maybe the more experienced magicians need to get there fingers out...

Get involved in magic clubs for young people and begginers, encourage them how to perform better, and why they shouldnt download magic or reveal the secrets.

If the kids got a real interest im sure they would join there local young magicians club or school.

If they knew it was there...

I personally try to avoid pootube magic tricks, solely because whenever you look for an effect (eg the BRILLIANT Paul Daniels version of chop cup / cup and balls) and under neath are comments saying 'its a fake hand, the real hand is up his sleeve etc - ie you get people explaining the effect in a really stupid way

ALSO you see tha in the videos like these section, you see 'the magic performance video you are looking at' - explenation of

Everytime I see this, I leave a comment about their poor card handling skills / their AWFUL use of magic terms (such as 'this is something I made up called the triple cutting spinning shuffle which keeps the card in the same order as before...and I made it up') ITS A TRIPLE FALSE CUT YOU FOOOOO !!! AND YOU DIDNT MAKE IT UP !!! - then I flag it as innapropriate and tell youtube its exposure etc - I have a pre-written message

Summing up...there are a fewpootube vids which are good, but most are AWFUL and are performed by idiots who are just explaining cheap explenation videos...its a spiral of decline...

Dan
aka magic Trev - the Youtube magical video destroyer

I'm working at tyring to learn magic.

I can see what you are all saying about youtube, and I agree, but due to some financial circumsatances that's all I have to learn from...

I try not to just look at a cool trick and then find a video explainng, I try to use youtube as best I can as a resource. I'm working on some card passes right now, and though not all magic routines on youtube are good, enough of them about the same thing really help in learning.

Actually, that's about all I use youtube for, and juggling.
(I have to get my paretns to take me to the library...)

Well Tim

What we have today (the access to cheap books like royal road to card magic etc... and mark wilson: course in magic)... is alot more than people had a long time ago, when i started out i tend to find it was much better learning from a good old book over new videos or DVDs.

Nothing wrong with DVDs but well i dont know how to explain really.

Theres just so much to learn with magic, sleights, tricks, patter, performance skills, misdirection etc...

Your probly better learning off a great book, even if you got something like "Card College Vol.1" (If your into cards, which most people are at first). Then just slowly work yourself through the book (lots of things to master in there, and you should take it slow, rushing will get you no where). Then buy "Card College Vol.2" etc...

By the time youve gone through and mastered all the moves and tricks in those books, you will be very very very talented when it comes to sleights, and shouldnt find it hard learing any new magic tricks from videos etc...

And please if you are going to learn magic, your gonna have to get some books on actual performing one day

Theres so much to learn anyway, you just gotta stick to it and try not to rush, i rushed, wanted to learn all the best new tricks (i was alot younger then). It didnt do me no favors. Just alot of poorly performed magic.

Timo wrote:I'm working at tyring to learn magic.

I can see what you are all saying about youtube, and I agree, but due to some financial circumsatances that's all I have to learn from...

I try not to just look at a cool trick and then find a video explainng, I try to use youtube as best I can as a resource. I'm working on some card passes right now, and though not all magic routines on youtube are good, enough of them about the same thing really help in learning.

Actually, that's about all I use youtube for, and juggling.
(I have to get my paretns to take me to the library...)

Well you will never become a magician that way (thats right, your not one even now.)

Its just plain unethical and disrespectful. You have no respect for magic, the creators or performers.

I am not too worried about exposure to the public... as they arent really out there looking for it. I have never met any one that looks up magic secrets. I am pi**ed with exposure, because of people like you. That make excuses to why to use it.

Your stealing information that you have no right to. I and others have paid to gain this information in one way or another. No one deserves to just get it free, NO ONE!

My advice, is to just quit magic now. IF you cant have enough respect for magic, then you shouldnt be in it.


MAgic was better before there was the internet. No pesky kids, less wannabes and fakes. The interent allows any two bit punk to learn magic, and then have to balls to call them selves a magician. Knowing tricks is nothing. Tricks dont make the magician.
Books were a great weed out, as usually only those who were truely interested would buy them and take the time to read them.

I know I'm not a magician and I have a lot of respect for magicians.

I'm really quite new to magic and I'm really only trying to use youtube to learn the very basics of card magic. Basic sleights and such. No specific tricks or anything like that. THings I could learn from an hour trip to the library. I'm just trying to get my foot in the door to magic.

I was going to get royal road to card magic and modern coin magic, but my family being a month away from bakrupcy means I can't order them online and all my money is in checks that my parents who are in debt owe me. I would have bought them if I could. See the problem?

Really I'm amazed by most of the tricks I see and like to keep it that way until I can honestly learn to do it.


If you have any better suggestions for how I should start, I'd really would be glad to hear them, because I'm not sure exactly what to do.

David The Cryptic wrote:

Timo wrote:I'm working at tyring to learn magic.

I can see what you are all saying about youtube, and I agree, but due to some financial circumsatances that's all I have to learn from...

I try not to just look at a cool trick and then find a video explainng, I try to use youtube as best I can as a resource. I'm working on some card passes right now, and though not all magic routines on youtube are good, enough of them about the same thing really help in learning.

Actually, that's about all I use youtube for, and juggling.
(I have to get my paretns to take me to the library...)

Well you will never become a magician that way (thats right, your not one even now.)

Its just plain unethical and disrespectful. You have no respect for magic, the creators or performers.

I am not too worried about exposure to the public... as they arent really out there looking for it. I have never met any one that looks up magic secrets. I am pi**ed with exposure, because of people like you. That make excuses to why to use it.

Your stealing information that you have no right to. I and others have paid to gain this information in one way or another. No one deserves to just get it free, NO ONE!

My advice, is to just quit magic now. IF you cant have enough respect for magic, then you shouldnt be in it.


MAgic was better before there was the internet. No pesky kids, less wannabes and fakes. The interent allows any two bit punk to learn magic, and then have to balls to call them selves a magician. Knowing tricks is nothing. Tricks dont make the magician.
Books were a great weed out, as usually only those who were truely interested would buy them and take the time to read them.

Whoa nelly, I realise that exposure is about as bad as you can get for magic as it is but there is no need to jump down this poor lads throat.
He is not the one exposing the trick and therefore not the villain. The people who are wrong here are those who commit the exposure you cannot blame someone who wishes to learn something for typing something into google I do it all the time. If I want to find out about a film I'll check out youtube for a trailer and look for a review.

This is an issue that affects all performing magicians as there trade could potentially be taken away and I can understand why you might react why you have but still bit harsh leik.

As for Timo just buy a book like The Royal Road to Card Magic and see if you can work your way through that. Its not expensive it's like 6 quid I spend that on going to see a film theres no need for fancy DVD's really although they are very helpful you can with some perseverance do just as well from books.

I'm not too worried about performing a trick that has been exposed, most people can't remember how the trick went anyway. My father in law told his buddys that the coins penetrated the table from the bottom to the top and they actually go down. When talking to another magician about Double Back, I told him about the trick and what the premise was, not how it was done. A moment later I asked him if he would like to see a great trick and did Double Back for him. He was totally amazed and then he asked me the name ao the trick. Even magicians don't connect the dots all the time. I don't care for exposures either,even Penn and Tellers making magic more of a gag than good entertainment. They expose things better left to the magic fraternity.
My first magic book was The Amatuer Magicians Handbook by Henry Hay and the first trick was sympathetic coins. That trick is also in Mark Wilsons course and you can get the pocketbook paperback for under $10 US. RRTCM, Encyclopedia of Card Magic, Selfworking Card Tricks by Karl Fulves are good places to start your learning.

Timo wrote:

If you have any better suggestions for how I should start, I'd really would be glad to hear them, because I'm not sure exactly what to do.

Get a paper round rather than steal honest people's work off youtube and buy some decent books. At least then you'll be learning honestly and most of all properly.

On the subject of exposure, the Daily Mirror and giving away free DVD's this week about 'great mysteries'. Tomorrows is about the Loch Ness Monster and later in the week there is one on psychic powers and 'magic tricks'.
The bumpf mentions pulling rabbits out of a hat and sawing a woman in half, so whether they just show these 'mysteries' or expose them, I don't really know.
If anyone gets this DVD then please let us know what it's all about, Alfie.