talkmagic.co.uk

hey everyone,

I'm working on a new escapology show for the street, gonna start by doing a comedy handcuff escape then a slightly more difficult escape (possible a straight jacket then finishing with a big escape possible the mail bag escape. i was wondering if people could come up with another grand escape for the finale. my reasons are thus

1) i already know and have worked with a guy who does a mail bag escape and don't want to use his work

2) it is very hard to get height with a mail bag escape as it is usually done on the floor

3) i don't want to do a straight jacket escape for a finale coz every guy, his granny and his grannies yorkshire terrier is doing it.

so here are the stipulation for the escape

1) should be able to be done at height (eg on top of a ladder or similar)

2) should be impressive enough to be a finale

3) should be easily transportable by train

now i am not looking for a finished routine or anything i believe in creating and developing ideas so looking for ideas to get my mind working

very much appreciated

cheers

figo

I'd HIGHLY recommend you have some long talks with experiences ESCAPISTS (Not Magicians... there's a MAJOR difference). You also need to get some lectures pertaining to this field and the realities of doing a "nothing but escapes" show...(HINT: not even Houdini did such a program... it's too boring!)

The other thing you need to recognize (as pertaining to something I say above) is that using a Siberian Chain release does not make one an escape artist nor does owning a sub trunk or even a Water Cell. Escape work requires a very unique mind-set that is akin to doing Stunt Work for movies or even some of the more thrill seeking sports that are out there. There is a legit danger to it.

It takes a very special kind of person to do this sort of work and "sell" it... few achieve that level of skill or "audience connection".

I agree with Craig on this, asking magicians is really not the way to go. There is an escape artist in the UK. James Peters I am sure you can find him somewhere on the web. Most escapes get pretty boring pretty quick. But as always there are a few that can really put a good show together. Dean Gunnerson out of Mannitoba Canada does very well. I did see a street performer get himself wrapped up in plastic wrap from neck to foot and manage to escape, that was interesting. I am however suprised that nobody stole his hat while he was wriggling around on the ground.

Craig Browning wrote:I'd HIGHLY recommend you have some long talks with experiences ESCAPISTS (Not Magicians... there's a MAJOR difference). You also need to get some lectures pertaining to this field and the realities of doing a "nothing but escapes" show...(HINT: not even Houdini did such a program... it's too boring!)

The other thing you need to recognize (as pertaining to something I say above) is that using a Siberian Chain release does not make one an escape artist nor does owning a sub trunk or even a Water Cell. Escape work requires a very unique mind-set that is akin to doing Stunt Work for movies or even some of the more thrill seeking sports that are out there. There is a legit danger to it.


It takes a very special kind of person to do this sort of work and "sell" it... few achieve that level of skill or "audience connection".

I am an escape artist. I do more paid escape shows than magic shows.
I create, design, build and perform them. I have worked and learned with some of the top in the field. Read many of books, watched dvds and talked personally to performers, designers and builders.
Also I have been learning side show stunts lately.

It is alot different than performing magic. It needs a whole different mind set, as you said, in order to make them work, in more than one sense. It takes a lot to make them entertaining, to be able to make them convining. The people now and days are over exposed to "death" and pain. Just look at stuff like "Saw" or "Hostel." What used to be amazing back then during Houdinis time, can be much harder to pull off now.

Take the SJ, been done over and over and over. Some can pull it off, making it entertaining. Others simply fail. Some like to spice it up, I do. As a challenge to myself, and to involve the audience on even more levels.Now they are not only mentally involved, but also physically involved, and are challenged them selves. So now its not just me vs the SJ, but its now me vs the SJ and the audience.

You also have to be willing to spend a lot of money, and willing to take risks.I have recieved more than I can count- Rope burns, cuts, stabs, near suffixiation, loss of circulation, burns, and a very close call in one of my newer escapes I created. But that one is under lock and key for right now, I still need more practice. But I will say that it has caught the eye of Ripleys Believe it or Not.

Not saying all escapes are dangerous, but many can be. some more than other. Take the 100ft rope tie. Looks faily harmless, what could happen? Well, so far I have recieved at least 50 rope burns, some pretty bad. Some ropes show no mercy on your skin. I recall a story about Houdini, where he was injured performing this escape, as the 'tier' tied part of the rope around his neck. But I havent gotten comfirmation on the truth that story holds.

But there are escapes like the Oval Shackles, Siberian Chains, Keller Rope, Spirit ties... all faily harmless. But they will take much more work to make them entertaining.

Craig you are amazing, you know so much information about so many things. Thats one reason why I stay on this forum, to read your posts.

Thanks for the kudos David...

Long, long ago when I was still in High School I set out with the thought of doing more and more escapes and trying to get recognized as the youngest to do things like the Water Cell, etc. Sadly, one of the more "death defying" pieces we pulled together when very wrong and that was the end of my escape career... I took a 1,200 foot fall into Lake Michigan and skipped across the water like a stone... I was one big bruise for about six months and sadly, it was all caught on tape by local news reels (I shutter every time I see the footage). The failure of this stunt is proof that even when you have a crew of pros that are very much in the know, things can still go wrong. I got beat up pretty good, my old chum Michael Rosso ended up with severe brain damage and a rather shattered body attempting a similar bit.

If you were to talk with Mr. Escape (Steve Baker) he will tell you horror stories of honest to god near death situations (including a situation in South America in which another noted Escapist deliberately changed the fire chemicals on him and fiddled with some of the shackling system in hopes he'd fail...getting rid of the competition as it were.)

I had a very short lived five or six years doing genuine escape work in my mid and late teens. I've done the Water Cell a few times since the accident but always as an illusion vs. legit... the last time we did it we made it vanish.

Craig Browning wrote:Thanks for the kudos David...

Long, long ago when I was still in High School I set out with the thought of doing more and more escapes and trying to get recognized as the youngest to do things like the Water Cell, etc. Sadly, one of the more "death defying" pieces we pulled together when very wrong and that was the end of my escape career... I took a 1,200 foot fall into Lake Michigan and skipped across the water like a stone... I was one big bruise for about six months and sadly, it was all caught on tape by local news reels (I shutter every time I see the footage). The failure of this stunt is proof that even when you have a crew of pros that are very much in the know, things can still go wrong. I got beat up pretty good, my old chum Michael Rosso ended up with severe brain damage and a rather shattered body attempting a similar bit.

If you were to talk with Mr. Escape (Steve Baker) he will tell you horror stories of honest to god near death situations (including a situation in South America in which another noted Escapist deliberately changed the fire chemicals on him and fiddled with some of the shackling system in hopes he'd fail...getting rid of the competition as it were.)

I had a very short lived five or six years doing genuine escape work in my mid and late teens. I've done the Water Cell a few times since the accident but always as an illusion vs. legit... the last time we did it we made it vanish.

Man that sounds painfull. Heights are one thing I do my best to avoid. To much can happen, plus I am a slight acraphobia. You dont happen to have a copy of that available? Or is that for your private collection?
I will stick with ground and water.
The most dangerous one I own, I have yet to perform in public. Its just too risky right now; my doctors worry alot. But some one has to.

I have heard of baker, talked to him abit. But thats a long story.

I have also talked to and befriended Steve Santini. He was a great help in my endevours and taught me alot. Hes a great guy and a great performer.

I have never performed the real water cell. ITs not something I really want to do. I prefer doing stuff I build and create. MAke it my own.

Escapes have worse fueds than any other entertainment field I think.

Its not really easily transportable - well, depends on the version you have, but you could do a version of the substitution box? (I know its more magic than escaping, and you need an assistant) but it would be a great finalie to a show, and all you would need is a bit of height on the stage for people to see whats going on... hope that helps

I have always wanted to get into escapism - but it all seems too obviously fake (sorry to sound like a bore...) for example, I have devised an illusion / escape where I place my hands in a box, with my arms chained up, and my thumbs out of the end, tied together with cable ties / thumb cuffs - with my arms chained inside the box, I undo the padlocks / chains and escape - even thought the padlock has JUST been opened from a packet (I work at B&Q - HomeDepot if your in USA) off the shelf / which has been sealed - YET when I try to explain the escape to people (to see what kind of a reaction I would get) they just say 'well, you would be using a fake chain' or 'it would be a fake padlock' - the dont understand that it is possible to be able to escape without using fake props :S and its annoying, as I think it would be AWSOME !!!

What are your guys views on people assuming its all fake? any tips on how to avaoid things like this? (sorry to be a little bit off topic btw)

Dan
aka Magic Trev

Dan... that is why I said what I've said; True Escape Magic is not the gaffed ropes and boxes or locks you have read about. Though some of that may be used here and there for various reasons, true escape work is very much akin to doing solid stunts in which a real life or death scenario could actually play out... nowhere close to be the same as the various magic tricks you've seen or read about.

I had a young man ask me how I learned to do escapes the answer is very simple; you start with 20 feet of rope and allowing every person you meet, tie you up as best they can and then you work your way out... you then learn to do the same basic thing with more rope or more chain and on and on until you learn how to actually do such things with little to no effort great effort (compared to those that haven't studied this sort of predicament).

It's not the same as reading a Walter Gibson book on Houdini and running out to buy this and that gaff.

hey craig thanks for your input. as always your knowledge and experience help a lot in answering my questions.

i think that what everyone has said is very true i think it will take a lot of work for me to create a show that is entertaining and watchable. always the danger when doing escape shows that people will think it is fake or even worse boring so thanks to everyone for your input. i am determined to create a street show that is just escapology i have seen several at various festivals and they work well but it is down to the comedy and presentation that it is a success the escape is just a medium for the comedy to be shown.

i think starting off with whip cracking to draw attention and using comedy when being trussed up is the way i've got to go forward. however i still need a finale that is able to be done at height. not talking at the top of a sky scrapper but on top of a ladder or something similar.

as always your views very much appreciated.

craig any help you can give on this is always welcome even just by way of insperation.

cheers
figo

The thing is, in magic if you make a mistake the worst that can happen is you get laughed off stage and have to work you way back up to standard whilst worrying about where your next appearance will be. If you foul up in escapology, you already know where your next appearance will be. In the cemetery.

Mandrake wrote:The thing is, in magic if you make a mistake the worst that can happen is you get laughed off stage and have to work you way back up to standard whilst worrying about where your next appearance will be. If you foul up in escapology, you already know where your next appearance will be. In the cemetery.

Well, a hospital at least...

Not an escapologist myself, but what I always find problematic with escapology is credibility.

Magicians are obviously doing tricks, and don't need to prove anything - the good ones just suspend your disbelief for a while.

Mentalism feeds well off the ambiguity of not knowing what's real and what's trickery.

With escapology, audiences are familiar with the concept of fake handcuffs and dodgy locks, stolen keys... They don't know the technical details of how stunts are achieved, but they'll always suspect gaffed gear.

Unless you're playing an Ann Summers Party, there's little chance of you borrowing all the restraints you need to be completely above board. (come to think of it, that's a great idea - I'll have to suggest it to my local store!).

So your big challenge is to sell the reality of your escapes. Even if it's all genuine stuff, you're going to have to go several extra miles to convince your audience of it.

Showmanship, anyone?

pcwells wrote:Not an escapologist myself, but what I always find problematic with escapology is credibility.

Magicians are obviously doing tricks, and don't need to prove anything - the good ones just suspend your disbelief for a while.

Mentalism feeds well off the ambiguity of not knowing what's real and what's trickery.

With escapology, audiences are familiar with the concept of fake handcuffs and dodgy locks, stolen keys... They don't know the technical details of how stunts are achieved, but they'll always suspect gaffed gear.

Unless you're playing an Ann Summers Party, there's little chance of you borrowing all the restraints you need to be completely above board. (come to think of it, that's a great idea - I'll have to suggest it to my local store!).

So your big challenge is to sell the reality of your escapes. Even if it's all genuine stuff, you're going to have to go several extra miles to convince your audience of it.

Showmanship, anyone?

That is what it takes, for a big part. Escapology isnt for everyone thats for sure. Just like magic it takes excellent presentation.
A good book on this kind of thing is: a book by Steve Santini, I wrote a review on it a while back. Things you never knew about escapes, and know one would tell you. Somehting like that, the name escapes me right now.

I am not sure why my type is bigger. I didnt click anyof the other buttons.

i think your right escapology does require skilled presentation and a lot of people will suspect trickery but, with card magic they expect slight of hand and it still works, i think that if i go out trying to convince them and upsell the escapes then I'm going to fall flat on my face but if i use the escapes to sell the comedy it's going to work a lot better and it doesn't matter if it's real or not becuase it's funny

I'm not an escapeologist! but I have friends that are or were, Dean Gunnerson, James Randi most notably and have spoken with others it is a field that fascinates me but not one that I would persue. The thumb cuffs and other thumb ties are the extent of what I do, in this regard. I do have a degree in Sociology and I am a student of human observation.

With that said and my lack of qualifications honestly noted I differ with one attitude on this string, I honestly don't think an escapeologist has to go out of his/her way to prove that there are no gimmicks involved. When you give somebody a straight jacket and they look it over that is really all that is needed. Ask somebody to put handcuffs on you, they hold those cuffs and even if there is a gimmick most will believe they are not. Have spectators tie you up in chains or ropes. There is nothing to gimmick as far as they are concerned. Most people think of Houdini when they see an escape artist and most believe, rightly or wrongly that everything he did was real.

I do believe that when a magician attempts to make an escape then he absolutly does have to prove everything is above board. I don't classify the sub trunk as an escape, it is an illusion like the buzz saw or anything else. And I believe people understand the difference between a magician and an escape artist. I'm not sure I am making myself clear I can only hope you understand an appreciate my view.