talkmagic.co.uk

I'm a newbie to card magic and am loving every minute of it. I've recently seen some teaching videos that Brad Christian has done and enjoyed his approach to coaching, being positive about the endless mistakes that we all have to go through before mastering any skill. I think the custom decks that they make are very funky, seeming to have had much thought put into them. Anyway, I get the feeling that they are not so well liked in the magic community (to be fair though, this forum is the only contact I have at the moment). I would like to ask if this is the case and if so, may I ask why? I hope this won't cause a huge storm. I just seek to learn. Please be aware of any libel implications (I hope that this won't be necessary but I'd hate for anyone to get into trouble on my account)

Also, if you've seen it, is Voodoo Zone the same as Card Warp?

Hope everyone is good.

Ellusionist hype up all of their products to ridiculous levels and re-vamp old tricks and sell them for $30 each when you could spend £5 on a book full of 100 effects of the same calibre.

though silver dream was good!

Ellusionist hype up all of their products to ridiculous levels and re-vamp old tricks

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Definitely some truth there. they spend a lot of time and money on the hype. Some of their products are ok, and they do sell other non-ellusionist-produced DVDs and books (i.e. lennart green). the best approach IMHO is to review find the reviews others have posted of the products that they sell and then decide if it's the right product for what you're looking for. There are a lot of sites out there, so don't limit yourself to just one. Also, there are a number of comments on reviews on E in these forums, so you might want to check them out as well. Overall opinion seems to be a little less than positive.

Before all the E bashing starts.....

Yes they do repackage old tricks as something new. Yes they do hype their products beyond belief. Yes they are expensive but if it wasn't for Ellusionist I wouldn't have gotten into magic. If it wasn't for them my card skills would leave a lot to be desired. Crash Course 2 took my card magic to a whole new level.

While I tend not to buy from them these days I do owe Ellusionist a debt of gratitude. Without them I would not be the performer I am today.

Best wishes
Gary

Ellusionist hype up all of their products to ridiculous levels and re-vamp old tricks and sell them for $30 each when you could spend £5 on a book full of 100 effects of the same calibre.

Although would you have heard of the effect if they didnt??
There are 100's of effects in the books, till someone releases it as a stand alone effect, then bringing it to the attention of lots. I think that there are 2 kinds of magicians

1) study and learn the hard way, (books - dvd's - research)
2) Pre made tricks - straight of the shelf and ready to go

Most of us start in the pre made and pull towards knowledge of books.

Example of knowledge,

Paul Gordons - Corner Of Piccadilly = RRP £12.50
This trick along with 20+ others are in his book The second 16th Card = RRP £15

Only when you brought Corner of Picadilly do you realise that for £2.50 extra you could have his other effects.

Ellusionist are pretty much the same they have a lazy market.

Darren @ The Magic Attic

I started out with Ellusionist too. And their products are ok.. and have some good stuff out.

Im not bashing Ellusionist Im just saying they do hype up their products to ridiculous levels, which is all part of merketing I guess.. I think Ellusionist is a good place to start if you dont know wny better.. but people tend to move away from Ellusionist as they gain knowledge.

I was just answering the initial question of why people Ellusionist doesnt seem well liked.

Its not that people dont like Ellusionist.. its the ethics that seem to be forwned upon. But Im just answering his question.

I do like their decks though, dont use them much ... but they look snazzy..

Ellusionist are a business-engine.

They've made the money, earned the 'rep', and are now feeding the beast that Brad created. Nothing wrong with that.

My only concern is that newcomers to the magic scene may see E. as the 'be all, end all' of modern magic. Sure we all start somewhere, but frankly the stuff is overhyped and overpriced.

But it's the same in any genre of hobby or pastime... not until you get under the skin of it do you realise how much money you could have saved, and how much of the 'journey' you could have avoided by knowing what you now know. It's a learning thing.

I will always praise Ellusionist as much as I slate them. They've created a fantastic business, but at the same time they've created a maligned brand. Kudos to Brad, really.

Don't do it.
You need to be taught by a real magician.

I started out with Ellusionist too. And their products are ok.. and have some good stuff out.

Im not bashing Ellusionist Im just saying they do hype up their products to ridiculous levels, which is all part of merketing I guess..

Me too. Crash Course 1 & 2 were my first forays into the magical arts, and i learned a lot from them. It's really the overhyping and the pseudo-exclusivity (which causes them more problems than anything else) that bother people, since there are a host of other sites out there, and E tends to pawn itself off as the alpha and omega site.

Hey guys, thanks for your replies, also, I.D., thanks for the clarification, it does give a slightly different slant to your first answer. It seems that I was thinking the same thing, that magic is only limited by our imaginations but the principles are the same and have been for hundreds of years. In this capitalist market economy we have to work to survive and, if it's doing something you love, you're onto a winner. Once again, it's nice to be sharing thoughts on this forum, thanks again for your replies.

(I do like the Ghost deck though. Very nice)

DT

I think E has a great style of marketing: catchy website, cool looking products, and lots of hype. All very good methods of raking in the more cash.

However, I do think that as magicians, we need to exclude E from our purchasing circle and find the place in which has free shipping, low prices, and holiday bonuses. Does E have that?

Didn't think so.

The one online magic shop in which I believe has great service and prices is mjmmagic.com.

Of course, that is just my opinion,

.:Ham:.

I have never ordered anything from them. I have some of the special bikes they have produced but have not bought them direct.

Their DVD's and suchlike don't really appeal to me. The clips I have seen of them have a far too brash presentational style and a lot of hyperbole. I should imagine there isn't a great deal of substance on them.

Having a good library of magic books, including the complete Tarbell course, I would resent paying twenty quid or so for a DVD with some loudmouthed yank teaching me one or two effects to a soundtrack of awful blaring music.
They appear to be aimed fairly and squarely at the teenage Angel imitators and have cornered that market impeccably. Good business sense, but the "this is so easy anyone can do it" approach to everything puts me off too.

the effects on Ellusionist seem overhyped and overpriced. They seem like decent effects but yes, you can find them in places like Mark Wilson's course, and Tarbell.

I am proud to say I am the sort of generation a lot of you call the "youtube generation" and have not bought from Ellusionist. A lot of it seems like a waste of money.

There are a lot of good websites.

www.magic.org is great has great prices, and free shipping for orders over 100$. They always have a great deal going on. I definitely recommend it.
Also I advise you to do what everyone else here says. Buy books. Today I was talking to a friend who wanted to get into magic and I advised him to only use books. Luckily he understood. I told him that there are great books from 5-10 dollars that have 100s of great tricks, and websites that sell one trick for 30 dollars. I gave him a list of these books.

1.Royal Road to Card Magic
2.Modern Coin Magic
3.The Expert at the Card Table
4.Art of Astonishment (expensive but well worth the price
5.Tarbell
6.Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic
7.Strong Magic to really learn the art, and not just the tricks

I think these will help a lot of people, and are great for beginners (by the way, I do consider myself beginner/amateur.)

Gary Dickson wrote:Before all the E bashing starts.....

Yes they do repackage old tricks as something new. Yes they do hype their products beyond belief. Yes they are expensive but if it wasn't for Ellusionist I wouldn't have gotten into magic. If it wasn't for them my card skills would leave a lot to be desired. Crash Course 2 took my card magic to a whole new level.

While I tend not to buy from them these days I do owe Ellusionist a debt of gratitude. Without them I would not be the performer I am today.

Best wishes
Gary

Yep! Without their videos, I may not easily understand how to do sleight of hand with card compared to reading books.

The price is high because obviously it cost some for producing the videos.