talkmagic.co.uk

Blapsing_Beard wrote:would it ever matter that I dont believe in palmistry or tarot?

It depends on whether you're happy to con people.

If you use any divination system that you don't believe in, you are a deliberate fraud.

steve.

Not of you're happy to con people

A bit harsh maybe...It does depend on context...as long as he's not telling little old ladies that they're deceased partners are telling them to give all their money to the lovely psychic you're generally going to be ok...and when it comes within the context of magic thats an unlikely scenario.
Most of my act involves mind reading and unfortunately I can't actually read minds but this doesn't make me a con man I hope.

unless I show the psychological aspects of what makes tarot work? Then I can allow people to make up their own decisions as to whether or not it is "real"

Something I should mention is Blapsing Beard's age. It is a little difficult for 17 year olds to be doing serious readings. If I were him I should avoid Tarot until he gets older and concentrate on short palmistry readings. Richard Webster's book on the subject will be enough for him. It is entitled "Quick and effective cold readings" which is a bit of a misnomer because there is little in the way of cold reading in the book and a lot of genuine palmistry.

17 year olds should be doing entertainment readings which last 10 minutes at the most. Dealing with people's lives is serious stuff and you need some life experience before you get mixed up in it.

I don't doing readings in the traditional "other worldly" sense

more the psychological sense of getting memorys

gah - i hardly know to explain it

I'll do me some extra research

i'd say actually beardman, is to maybe research different types of work a psychologist does, and then see if there's any cross overs...

but i still insist, real psychics dont learn systems...its intuitiveness...so there...

if you're psychologically based - that's it, no deviation im afraid!

imagine if you gave someone a reading, it was spot on, then you go "hey, i think all of this is rubbish by the way...but you psychologically fell for it all..."

you'd of missed the point of the reading, you were making a connection with someone on a deeper level, you were both sharing a bit of an intimate moment in some respects - why spoil it by then metaphorically tiping the board up in the air at the end of the game?

if you did it as a demonstration, clearly pointing out it was before you started - fine...but otherwise you could easily upset someone...

pendulum work is much more fun and has a safer scientifically based principle behind it you could lean on...all paths lead to richard webster...

stephen james durant wrote:
It depends on whether you're happy to con people.

If you're not happy to con people (in the nicest possible sense) surely you shouldn't be a magician? Or does that card really jump out of your deck and mysteriously appear again and again on top?

Nobody here is talking about anything more sinister than entertaining folk.

i was talking about telling them beforehand

iv had some fun with the pendulum, telling them how it works. we can have a good laugh then!

The more I think about it, the more difficult I think it is to introduce a reading element into a routine that is psychologically based. The only obvious way of doing it is to do a debunking style thing, but really in a close up or even stage sitaution that's about as entertaining as Eastenders.

There's a reason why "The Hidden Secrets of Atlantis" will outsell "Atlantis - It Never Existed" by a factor of 10:1. People want nay crave a mystery - for there to be something bigger and more wonderful "out there". Don't take that mystery away from them. Give them what they want. Isn't that what magic is really all about?

Cue motivational 80's soft rock ballad.

Without sounding crass, I'm writing a book on tarot cold reading at the moment which, obviously after Mark Lewis course, will be the essential guide to it.
I have done many paid readings and am about to start regular work for one of those psychic shops that sell candles and angel cards. Their tarot reader left and I gave them a demonstration and have been hired.

How I learnt to do this, and I'll give you this for nought, was by studying those who purport to be "genuine" (if there is such a thing) psychics.

Most towns have a spiritualist church and I believe there is one in Reading run by a man who couldn't cold read himself out of a paper bag called Peter King (this may have changed, it was years ago). He asked people questions such as "Have you ever seen the police doing their job on the streets?" and (remember this is mainly old ladies he was talking to) "Have you written a letter in the past six months?" Awful, general stuff.

You see, when I was younger, I was naive enough to be curious about mediums and such like and visited these places and week in week out would watch mediums at work. I noticed a general pattern as to the kind of people they would pick and the kind of things they would say.
It all seemed a real con to me as if they were really communicating with departed loved ones then the information would be more specific, but the 'punters' lapped it up and most importantly wanted to believe and would attach their own meanings to the vague ramblings of these people.

I was told by some of the lovely old dears (they baked lovely cakes too) that I had 'genuine' psychic abilites and would I be interested in joining their circle and training to be a medium. Only eight people were allowed in at a time so it seemed to be a kind of secret society, so of course I said yes.

Once I got into the way of thinking, I worked out pretty quickly how to subtly move the conversation in the direction needed to pick up signs and information and the manner in which to deliver it.

After a year, I was up on the platform giving readings to the patrons of the local spiritualist churches and being told how accurate I was. I felt a bit of a charlatan and gave it up for a while but have started doing tarot readings over the last few years.

I suggest having a nose down your local spiritualist church and observing. Watch the mediums, the 'audience', listen to what's said and how people find something to attach to it and watch their reactions.
That's the best advice I can give you without putting my whole book on here!


Hope this helps in some way.

I'm sorry that my post sounded harsh.

It's just that I think that when people see a magic trick they know they are being fooled, thats part of the fun and entertainment. They will wonder ...."how did you do that" and marvel at your skill and cleverness. They will enter into the spirit of things and expect to be tricked, the better the trick the more they will like it.

Giving a 'Reading' is a totally different kettle of fish. I think that honesty, scincerity and genuine empathy will provide for a much more pleasant experience for both the sitter and the Reader. There is of course the not insignificant matter of trust (which should be honered).

steve.

I don;t want to read them and tell them their future...

I want to read them and tell them their past!

and I believe that that makes all the difference.

Chris, I'm not judgng you, I'm sure you have no ill intentions, but whether you reading their past, present or future has little to do with how you're percieved to be divining the information. If you are using Tarot, palmistry etc then being 'true' to that system is being 'honest' and will pay dividends and feel more real. It will also work if you give it a chance.

If on the other hand you just want to appear to read memories, then I suggest there are more sure fire methods. You might like to hunt down DB's 'Reminiscence'

best wishes,
steve

Blapsing_Beard wrote:would it ever matter that I dont believe in palmistry or tarot?

That may come across in my body language when performing

It doesn't matter where you stand on that point, JUST LEARN THE SYSTEM AND USE THE SYSTEM... Through all the psycho-dribble you've found in the magic books away and JUST LEARN A SYSTEM AND USE IT!

I'll lay money on it that you will find reason, if you actually do Readings daily for a year (more than four or five a day), that you will walk away with an entirely different attitude on the subject than the magic & skeptic's world has trained you to embrace.

Blapsing_Beard wrote:I don;t want to read them and tell them their future...

I want to read them and tell them their past!

and I believe that that makes all the difference.

The public don't pay very well to hear about what they already know...

People misunderstand the issue of being a Reader and the fact that you do not have to use Tarot or Palmistry or any of the arcane tools, there are more modern and even "Scientific" resources that can be exploited... Again, Richard Webster has a book on such things and even released some videos years ago on Reading Gem Stones, Sea Shells, etc.

The most popular Reading I do is a Character Analysis based on the Drawing of a Tree. When I'm working clubs this has always proven one of the biggest money makers in that I'll do group after group with people paying $15.00 a pop... a four hour night will readily bring in several hundred dollars + offers for home parties, etc.

To be a Reader you absolutely do not have to do the whole gypsy mystic thing. Too, you need to understand that a huge amount of what we do is LISTEN... I'd say that most of my clients that are in the over 40 group, are simply lonely and uncertain; they just need a sounding board so they can take their own advice.

Whether you believe in them or not, you really should study Ron Martin's TAROT READER'S NOTEBOOK which has just been re-released on CD through MEVPRO.com Don't moan that it talks about Tarot just open your mind enough to see what Ron is explaining when it comes to being an effective Reader and HOW MUCH YOU DO NOT HAVE TO CHEAT.