talkmagic.co.uk

I have almost the worst, sloppiest pass in the world..ever!!! and because of this I have been very reluctant to use the pass in public. But, in the pub at lunchtime (steak pie and chips!), I decided to try it out in earnest.

When I say it is the worst ...thats an exageration..it is passable (no pun intended) but combined with the nerves and shaky hands they turned out to be very, VERY POOR.....

......NOBODY NOTICED...I couldn't believe but was totally heartened by the whole thing. A note to all potential "passers". TRY IT....you might think that it sucks big time but that is because you may be, as I was, trying to get it to a level where even YOU can't see it.

in general people fail to notice the obviouse on a regular basis so dont worry we know we are doing something they dont its as simple as that.

Indeed, my pass is at a standard whereby I about 50% of people miss it even if I tell them to look at my hands but when I was first learning it I relied quite heavily on people just not noticing. It is important to use it on an offbeat though, with use of misdirection it is completely unseeable at most levels, in fact if your misdirection is strong enought you could get away with just cutting the deck.

nickj wrote:in fact if your misdirection is strong enough you could get away with just cutting the deck.

It might sound wrong, but I readily do this anyway. The pass is just a fancy cut of the cards out of sight. When I see the words 'out of sight' together in a trick, then I read 'misdirect and get this result however you like.'

Obviously you gotta think sometimes of your spectator's awareness, etc etc etc as we all know, but although I know the pass, I only use it when necessary.

K.I.S.S. as numerous people have been told in and around these rooms!

(oh and by the way, check me out with my three top hats on my avatar!!)

what?...misdirection like..erm.."LOOK!!!...a giant hummingbird is eating your hat and coat" and THEN cutting the cards when they turn round.

Crafty, i'll give you that.

...in my case they were burning to the point where my hands were on fire. That was the point of trying it out because sometimes you can't get some people away from looking at your hands...it worked anyway!

That's weird — I use the hummingbird line also

Firstly, let's just ascertain how 'angle-specific' the pass actually is...

There are numerous occasions when the pass should NOT be used, and one of those occasions is if you're stood, your specs are sat.

Also—most passes I've ever seen are indeed sloppy. But as mentioned, on an offbeat or misdirection, the pass can work fine.

However, the 'utility' of the pass is easily achievable in other ways, such as a double undercut.

Learn the double undercut, and if you're caught with a break above a card and can't use a pass, simply double undercut. You won't have to worry about passing the deck.

I practiced for ages trying to use the pass as a colour change, before I used it to return a card to the top etc. and this practice helped me realise the 'masking' moves of the hands.

Mirrors will help. So will 'allies'. It's all about practice, as usual. And as the first post mentions, the sloppy passes are rarely noticed by laymen (and for a bizarre pass, check out Sadowitz - to a layman, it looks like a card juggle, but his pass is SO obvious to a magi!) and yet magicians usually can tell.

Offbeats work fine - and possibly the finest pass I've seen is that of Sankey - who uses his '1-2-3' rhythm and beats to CREATE an offbeat to pass the deck.

It's a matter of first learning the mechanics, then adopting the method to your own style and hand size, and then practice. Books alone may not be enough here - you need to audience test it with a friend etc. first. You simply can't see the bad angles on this as a performer.

Another tip is to pass the deck at waist height. I've seen many magi perform 'dodgy' passes higher up, and I've also seen magi's trying to disguise the pass as a flourish - which is a terrible way to arouse suspicion after having a card returned etc.

The whole idea behind the pass is for it to be barely noticable - which, if done correctly, can look as innocent as simply squaring the deck.

Peter Duffie's pass is awesome.......I have downloaded his little real player movies from his Alternative magic site" and I STILL cannot see exactly when he passes the cards.

No misdirection needed at all...and the view is from the front so you potentially you should be able to see SOME movement....astonishing, as most of his card magic is. Now if HE released a DVD I would be one of the first to buy it.

Peter Duffie's pass isn't a classic pass. If you PM me I can tell you the basics of what he's doing, but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll be doing it any time this decade! I gave up when I couldn't even get the hang of the grip properly.
I bought 'Pass With Care' by Pete Cassford which seems good, but I haven't spent a lot of time with it because practicing a pass isn't a priority for me at the moment. I bought it during a 'magpie' phase.

I know people here don't like the ellusionist stuff but I found that the stuff about the pass on Ninja 1 was very useful.

i have an exelent tip for the classic pass. And that is when you do it tilt your hands forward your righthand will then provide cover form the packet above the card you are passing to the top.

i hav a pdf explaining my own pass TDS pass. If you want it add me to msn messenger. I need some people to read it and see if they understand how o do the pass.

balejben@hotmail.com

Ben bale

balejben wrote:...i have an exelent tip for the classic pass... i hav a pdf explaining my own pass TDS pass...

And you're asking us on another thread how to get back into magic...

Sadly, the more I work on the pass, the less I work it into my routines. I agree with Ammar when he says that's it's a rather inefficient control. You're moving all 52 cards to control just 1. When I'm in certain situations, I still use the pass, but as I learn more and more, I find more effective replacements for it. Side steals, Lennart Green's center windmill move, spread culling, etc.

BeerForDolphins wrote:but combined with the nerves and shaky hands they turned out to be very, VERY POOR......

Here is the crux of the problem and it is a common problem with sleights. Guilt!!! In some ways the biggest hurdle to get over as a magician is that all through life we are taught that lying is wrong, as magicians though our art relies to a large extent on our ability to lie with impunity. This causes two problems when doing moves, first guilt caused by the subconcious knowledge that we are in effect being dishonest and secondly fear of getting caught which is to a large extent fueled by that guilt. This is not helped by the fact that the guilt and fear cause us to tense up at the critical moment causing us to telegraph the move making it far more likely to get caught, and of course getting caught proves that our fears were well founded and thus reinforces them.

So how do we get past it? Well the bad news is that you know what the first part of the answer is ....... practice. Never perform a move in front of an audience before it is second nature. Sure I know that when you learn a new trick it is human nature to want to perform it, but showing it a day before you are really ready can put you a month back. Getting the move to be second nature gives you the confidence, this takes away a lot of the fear and just leaves you to deal with the guilt.

The guilt tends to go away with time and experience but the ways I have found to counter it is first to focus on the results rather than the method,visualise the end result, the happy and surprised reaction of the spectators. See the trick going well in your minds eye, learn to associate the moves with the joy they will bring to your audience rather than the deceipt that is inherant in the method. Another little trick is to believe your own hype so to speak. Houdin said that a magician is merely an actor playing the part of a magician, so use method acting, try to believe what you tell your spectators, if you pretend to place a coin in your hand, try to believe you really did. see how it feels to put a coin in your hand then try to feel the same inside. I'm not talking so much about the physical sensation of it going in the hand (but if you can recreate that then go for it) I'm talking about the emotions, the knowledge that the coin is actually there. When you say your card is in the middle of the pack, believe that and let your hands do the pass without your brain getting in the way

And if you can't get yourself to believe what you are telling the audience, pretend you believe it, act the way you would if you really believed it.

Hope this helps, I'm used to having these kind of discussions in person, I'm not so sure how well it is going to translate to text.

Mark

it translates into text very well.... good post

I don't buy the old line that it's inefficientL: "52 cards to control just 1". What is efficiency? Why does it matter? Are we trying to save energy here!?

As far as the audience sees it, it couldn't be more efficient. The card undeniably goes into the middle of the deck and it's squared. No shuffles no cuts. Ipso facto the card MUST be in the middle of the deck. So when it appears in your wallet 10 seconds later it must be magic. Compare that to false shuffles and cuts - even the most naive person will assume that a good magican can control a card in a shuffle.

There aren't that many controls that are more efficient. A side slip also involves you moving the rest of the pack (if you do it properly). A shuffle involves moving all the cards several times.

There are other simple controls that have the benefit of simplicity an avoiding shuffles, including using Tilt and then disposing of the top and bottom cards as part of some "fairness" banter. Or Convincing Control, if you don't mind the card being on the bottom.

Personally I think it's worth learning a Pass. Not the classic pass necessaril but one of the "Herman style" like Invisible Pass, Table Tap Pass, Turnover Pass etc. They are easy and invisible.